Goodwill999 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) Has anyone used Edited January 29, 2020 by orangey123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browri Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 What exactly are you tapering off of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looking for answers Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 taper off what?, i wish it was available in pa for MI, well it is but only ptsd didnt u ask in another thread about benzos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notloki Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 I don't know of any state that allows Medical Cannabis for withdrawal from benzos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browri Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 If anything, I would think that coming off of benzos you would have heightened anxiety, and THC is the last thing you want when you're in a state like that. It can heighten anxiety, paranoia, heart rate. They might be out there, but I personally have never read any studies that indicated cannabis is useful in the treatment of benzo withdrawal. Benzos enhance the effects of GABA in the brain. In this study, they found that activation of the cannabinoid type 1 (CB1) receptor by THC actually inhibited GABA activity, which is the exact OPPOSITE of what benzos do. So you'd likely just make your anxiety worse, especially when you're already withdrawing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22133429 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browri Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, browri said: If anything, I would think that coming off of benzos you would have heightened anxiety, and THC is the last thing you want when you're in a state like that. It can heighten anxiety, paranoia, heart rate. They might be out there, but I personally have never read any studies that indicated cannabis is useful in the treatment of benzo withdrawal. Benzos enhance the effects of GABA in the brain. In this study, they found that activation of the cannabinoid type 1 (CB1) receptor by THC actually inhibited GABA activity, which is the exact OPPOSITE of what benzos do. So you'd likely just make your anxiety worse, especially when you're already withdrawing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22133429 Following on this though, CBD is also a cannabinoid and is itself a GABA reuptake inhibitor making more GABA available in the synapse. CBD is also a 5HT1A agonist like Buspar. And it has little affinity for the CB1 receptors like THC. Many people find relief from anxiety from CBD. And as long as the product you purchase had its CBD extracted from the stalk or seeds of the hemp plant, it's 100% legal in all 50 United States.....at least for now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodwill999 Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) On 2/24/2018 at 4:28 PM, looking for answers said: No Edited January 29, 2020 by orangey123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browri Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, orangey123 said: Yes Yes. The medical marijuana has no thc. Thank you for the comments. Ummm. Medical marijuana may sometimes not contain THC like the Charlotte's Web strain, but typical medical strains do contain at least some THC even if the CBD:THC ratio is 20:1 in some cases, the THC is still there. This is as opposed to CBD only products which aren't technically medical marijuana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodwill999 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 Oh ok. I wasent aware thc was in medical. So the reasons drs cannot help ppl get off with hemp and oil is bc its not regulated. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browri Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 17 hours ago, orangey123 said: Oh ok. I wasent aware thc was in medical. So the reasons drs cannot help ppl get off with hemp and oil is bc its not regulated. .... Mostly correct. Recreational is typically high in THC because high THC levels get you.....well.....high. lol. However, it does still contain all of the other cannabinoids like CBD (cannabidiol) which aren't psychoactive (read MINIMALLY psychoactive on their own). However, CBD does alter the effect that THC has on you. For example, they injected healthy individuals with an IV of pure THC. The individual actually started exhibiting symptoms of schizophrenia within 15 minutes. This didn't happen when co-administered with cannabidiol, which actually behaves as an antipsychotic in the brain. It prevents THC-induced psychosis. So all of the cannabinoid compounds are important. Medical in particular is USUALLY higher in CBD than THC because CBD has more of the anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive properties. If you've heard anyone describe "couch lock", that sensation comes from the combination of THC and CBD. CBD on its own doesn't generally do this, but in the presence of THC can cause serious sedation. So strains that are higher in CBD and lower in THC can have a less intoxicating effect that is generally more sedating. When you see CBD available online for sale, that is extracted from the stalk and the seeds, usually from industrial hemp. The U.S. DEA has said that CBD extracted in this fashion isn't regulated as a controlled substance unlike whole flower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodwill999 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) Is the cbd oil as effective Edited January 29, 2020 by orangey123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browri Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 While CBD is legal, there haven't been any head-to-head trials that I know of comparing CBD to other approved and accepted anxiolytic agents like Klonopin or Buspar. However, even without those trials, we do have a pretty good idea of how cannabinoids function in the brain. CBD has the most positive evidence for treating anxiety. But even THC has some evidence as well. But as researchers review the pharmacological action of these compounds, it's almost nostalgic of the days of tricyclic antidepressants because of how similar of an effect that dosage can have on response. Specifically the bell-curve model. There is both a too low AND a too high. Below is a link to a good article on a site that I like to follow that shows how THC at one dose can reduce anxiety, but increase the dose by 50-75% and you will actually CAUSE anxiety: http://profofpot.com/thc-anxiety/ Two actions of CBD that it shares with other anxiolytic agents are 5HT1A agonism (like Buspar) and GABAA positive allosteric modulation (like the benzos Ativan, Klonopin, Xanax, and Valium). So you get a med that combines the effects of Klonopin and Buspar. See section two in the link below for a chart (Phytocannabinoid cell targets) showing the pharmacodynamics of THC and CBD: http://profofpot.com/mechanisms-cannabis-entourage-effect/ You'll see that a good portion of those effects are positive or negative allosteric modulation. Allosteric modulators don't bind to the main site on a neuron, but rather on a "side site" where they "tune" the receptor's response up or down. As an example, GABA is a sedating and inhibiting neurotransmitter. Benzos like Klonopin bind to the allosteric site of GABA neurons and make them more sensitive to the GABA that already exists in the brain. This is positive allosteric modulation. Just the opposite, a compound that reduces the neuron's sensitivity to a compound would be a negative allosteric modulator Obviously most important to their effects are THC's partial agonist action at CB1 receptors (most of which are located in the brain) and CB2 receptors (most of which are located on immune cells), meaning that THC binds directly to the main site on CB neurons to partially activate and partially block them. However also important is that CBD is a negative allosteric modulator of CB1. This is important because that means that it controls or modulates the activity of THC. While THC activates the receptor, CBD works in the opposite direction to ensure THC doesn't over-stimulate. This is one of the ways that CBD keeps you from getting "too high" from THC and prevents things like THC-induced anxiety or paranoia. There are some other gems there too that explain the other positive effects of pot. As I said above, CBD is a full agonist of 5HT1A receptors like Buspar. It's a weak partial agonist of 5HT2A which means it is mostly an antagonist and would make CBD similar to some of the atypical antipsychotics. Although all of the currently used AAPs are pure antagonists. Also important is the negative allosteric modulation of 5HT3. This is likely how pot helps with nausea. CBD turns down the type 3 receptor's response to serotonin and helps to reduce nausea. Zofran on the other hand binds directly to the main site of 5HT3 as a regular antagonist. You'll also see that CBD is a partial agonist of the D2 receptors making it similar to Abilify, Vraylar, and Rexulti but with lower intrinsic activity making CBD's effect on dopamine receptors most similar to Rexulti of those 3. Other effects which are notable but not sure what impact they would have would be the negative allosteric modulation of opioid receptors. Because of the long half-life of cannabinoids this may help to reduce the "high" that one would get from opioids, but I doubt anyone would advocate using pot as a substitute for opioids. CBD is also a negative allosteric modulator of acetylcholine receptors which is notable based on my own experience because when I was dealing with antipsychotic-induced akathisia, I always felt that smoking reduced my restlessness and kept me from having to take Cogentin. All the science aside, based on my own experience, I used a product called KoiCBD. They make vape juice that I can consume throughout the day. What I've found is a 5-10 minute "smoke break" is sometimes enough to calm me down. It's soothing. It does help you unwind. But there is such a thing as too much CBD. It will help with anxiety but if you consume it constantly, what you'll find is that it can actually make you "stoned" and I put the word in quotes because you have to imagine what it feels like to be "stoned" but not "high". It's a really disconcerting feeling, and you feel like you've got a moderate case of the stupids. I purchase the 250mg/30ml bottles because I found that the 500mg bottles would get me closer to the stupids too quickly. Vaping about 3ml or less was usually sufficient. I would do it in the morning before work almost like a morning "toddy" and then go throughout the day. I might have another 1-2ml around noon and then vape another 3-5ml after work before going to bed. CBD is still quite expensive though, unfortunately. So vaping that much isn't really cost-effective. Alternatively, that same vape juice can actually be used as a sublingual "tincture". It's only contents are CBD isolate, propylene glycol, and vegetable glycerin. The latter two are industrial grade food additives that are in lots of things that we consume. In fact the way that albuterol inhalers make the "vapor/powder spray" is with propylene glycol among other compounds. Under the tongue would actually get more of it into the blood stream and more quickly, so you would theoretically be able to use less of it. Let me know if you have any other questions. Sorry for the brain dump. It's a lot to take in, but sometimes I can't help myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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