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So I started vraylar 1.5 mg, loved it but it messed with my sleep. Figured it was stress.

i also was coming down from 300 seroquel to 100 seroquel.

pdoc gave me trazadone if the seroquel wasn’t enough.

it wasn’t, 50 traz didn’t hel, 100 traz didn’t help, he took it up to 150 plus the 100 seroquel. I still sleep 6-7.5 hours , I need more. And it’s broken sleep waking up 10-12 times.

Any suggestions?

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I wish I had some good suggestions because I'm suffering from broken sleep myself right now. I guess I still recommend that you talk to your doctor about Remeron. Given Abiify insomnia, I was able to get - more like required - at least nine hours of sleep when I was taking Remeron and the hangover wasn't bad once I got used to the med. I also think that Remeron being a good antidepressant would make a good complement to the Vraylar for someone with MDD. But I am not a doctor.

Do you maintain good sleep hygiene? Like turning off screens an hour before going to bed and not exercising in the evening? Do you keep the bed for sleeping or do you crash on the bed during the day and watch TV or play with your phone? I'm not a big believer that sleep hygiene will cure refractive insomnia, but every little bit helps.

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All the the things mentioned for sleep hygiene I do, do. Because sleeps always an issue. Problem with Remeron is it’s on my genesight test as an avoid med that I process it poorly

I took it before, for like a week it did knock me the f out. But they took me off once the genesight test said that. But I believe the test states I may need more for a therapeutic effect.

What’s up with your sleep??

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I'm sleeping in 1-2 hour chunks. I think it's the Abilify and the fact that I gave up Remeron so now I get hit with the insomnia. I don't know. I sleep better in the morning from six until nine or ten, but the nights are hellish. I'm actually glad to see daylight outside because it means I will get at least a little sleep. Maybe I'm just a vampire. 

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1 minute ago, jt07 said:

I'm sleeping in 1-2 hour chunks. I think it's the Abilify and the fact that I gave up Remeron so now I get hit with the insomnia. I don't know. I sleep better in the morning from six until nine or ten, but the nights are hellish. I'm actually glad to see daylight outside because it means I will get at least a little sleep. Maybe I'm just a vampire. 

FWIW when on abilify I didn’t sleep, period. Wayyy to activating for me

I hope u find some sleep what about benedryl or unisom sleep tabs(different active ingredient)

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4 minutes ago, looking for answers said:

Should I try 200 traz even though he only said 150

I wouldn't without first consulting him just to be safe.

As for me, I really don't need Unisom or Benadryl because I have no problem falling asleep. I can nod off at the drop of a hat. It's staying asleep that's the problem for me.

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1 minute ago, jt07 said:

I wouldn't without first consulting him just to be safe.

As for me, I really don't need Unisom or Benadryl because I have no problem falling asleep. I can nod off at the drop of a hat. It's staying asleep that's the problem for me.

See that’s mee too I can fall asleep but don’t stay asleep it’s sooooooo broken

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5 minutes ago, looking for answers said:

See that’s mee too I can fall asleep but don’t stay asleep it’s sooooooo broken

I think we're getting this from the non-sedating antipsychotics. In my case, it was masked for years due to the Remeron.

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21 minutes ago, looking for answers said:

See that’s mee too I can fall asleep but don’t stay asleep it’s sooooooo broken

That makes me think something like an Ambien Controlled Release (CR)...but only for a short period while you see whether you adjust to the Vraylar.  Maybe it'll be less activating at a higher dose?  I don't know it well enough to say.  That said, I agree that something that's an anti-depressant by nature but also sedating could be a great idea to handle the MDD piece.  Amitryptaline?  Doxepin? 

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@looking for answers

I always need a sedating AP. Otherwise I don't sleep. Then I get manic and psychotic. Zyprexa and Seroquel and saphris (all those -pine's meds, olanzapine and quetiapine and asenapine) worked best for me and put me to sleep and kept me asleep not all night. I get up once or twice. But it's brief and I'm able to fall back asleep. 

Why are you not on a sedating AP if you need an AP anyway and have such bad insomnia? It seems like you could kill 2 birds with one stone. 

Edited by Wonderful.Cheese
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I would try raising the Seroquel to 200 mg, Trazodone can go to 300 mg. I've taken as much as 600 mg but I was using it as an antidepressant. You do realize when you make those large dose changes you will have rebound insomnia for several nights. i've done sleep hygiene for decades and for me the 2 biggies are cool room and dark room, 

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5 minutes ago, notloki said:

I would try raising the Seroquel to 200 mg, Trazodone can go to 300 mg. I've taken as much as 600 mg but I was using it as an antidepressant. You do realize when you make those large dose changes you will have rebound insomnia for several nights. i've done sleep hygiene for decades and for me the 2 biggies are cool room and dark room, 

It’s been 10 days but no one informed me of this. And my pdoc certainly didn’t . I had no issue going from 400 to 300 but 300 to 100 I did but it also coincided with vraylar?!?

 

alsi I do what the doc tells me that’s it.......

Edited by looking for answers
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4 minutes ago, looking for answers said:

I was on seroquel and it was leaving me so hungover

I don't know what to suggest. Did you get better sleep on Seroquel though? Like more hours than the 6 or 7.5 you are getting? How much were you getting on Seroquel? Were you taking it early enough in the evening so that it had time to wear off by morning when it is time to wake up? How long would you ideally like to sleep? How long did the hangover last?

Another sleep hygiene trick is to stop caffeine by a certain time. Do you drink some in the afternoon? 

I'm just thinking out loud here. 

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Just now, Wonderful.Cheese said:

I don't know what to suggest. Did you get better sleep on Seroquel though? Like more hours than the 6 or 7.5 you are getting? How much were you getting on Seroquel? Were you taking it early enough in the evening so that it had time to wear off by morning when it is time to wake up? How long would you ideally like to sleep? How long did the hangover last?

Another sleep hygiene trick is to stop caffeine by a certain time. Do you drink some in the afternoon? 

I'm just thinking out loud here. 

I stop caffeine by 2-3, I did sleeep more. But I lived by the pull I had to take it early in the night, and was still hungover. I’d get 9 hours and be verty hungover 

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2 minutes ago, looking for answers said:

I stop caffeine by 2-3, I did sleeep more. But I lived by the pull I had to take it early in the night, and was still hungover. I’d get 9 hours and be verty hungover 

I wish there were an easy answer or fix for this. But in my experience of 20 years of being a psych patient, I have never had a med that worked like that. That put me to sleep perfectly for 8 hours and I slept through the night and I fell asleep right away and then I woke up with no hangover and felt completely refreshed and not tired at all in the slightest bit. I wish such a thing existed and worked for me. Maybe you will find that something works that way for you. I hope so. There are so many options out there. 

But I have found that with meds you have to give and take. No med is perfect with zero side effects in my experience. Some people out there probably do have that nice and lucky experience (lucky ducks). But many of us don't and for many of us it takes decades to find a semi decent med combo that only works half the time. And I don't have the option of not taking meds. I end up court ordered to get treatment or worse. 

That's the reality for many of us here. I'm not trying to discourage you. I hope your experience is much different than mine. You never know you might just hit the med jackpot and find that magic combo soon! I really do hope so. Good luck and keep fighting!

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Ever try low dose resperidone? That's the only AAP that helped me with sleep that has not been mentioned here. It helped put me to sleep and I don't remember there being a huge hangover the next day. It can also help you with mood at a low dose (i.e. don't need to be psychotic). Clozapine is the final med that has helped me with sleep but it's not an appropriate choice for your condition. 

Edited by CeremonyNewOrder
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Just now, CeremonyNewOrder said:

Ever try low dose resperidone? That's the only AAP that helped me with sleep that has not been mentioned here. It helped put me to sleep and I don't remember there being a huge hangover the next day. It can also help you with mood at a low dose (i.e. don't need to be psychotic). Clozapine is the final med that has helped me with sleep but it's not an inappropriate choice for your condition. 

I have taken risperadal but it was only two weeks and doc took me off it.

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I know you were experiencing issues with sedation before and made some changes based on that, but is it possible that you overshot and are now on the other end of the spectrum. Since you both added the vraylar and decreased the seroquel, it's difficult to know if the insomnia is only because of the vraylar or because the seroquel, which was originally helping you sleep, was decreased. Would it be possible to increase your seroquel back to closer to your old dose to see if the two can balance each other out? Since they are both AAPs I don't know if this is reasonable, but on the sleep side of things, it would seem to make sense to try adjust the doses of your current & recent meds to find a middle ground between the previous sedation and the current activation.

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I'm sleeping somewhat better, but my sleep is still all broken up. I'd like to get more than 2 hours sleep without waking up. Fortunately, last night I was able to get back to sleep ok.

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16 minutes ago, jt07 said:

I'm sleeping somewhat better, but my sleep is still all broken up. I'd like to get more than 2 hours sleep without waking up. Fortunately, last night I was able to get back to sleep ok.

Sorry bud, I went to bed at 1030 na was up at 2

 

makes work very hard!!

Edited by looking for answers
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1 hour ago, looking for answers said:

Sorry bud, I went to bed at 1030 na was up at 2

 

makes work very hard!!

Yes, I imagine that work would be very hard indeed after a night like that. I hope you sleep better tonight.

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24 minutes ago, looking for answers said:

Cross posted this but my thyroid is off, may explain ALOT 

Maybe but maybe not. A high TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) means your thyroid output is low and your body is trying to stimulate it to get the level back up to normal. If your thyroid output is low, you would be more likely to be lethargic, sleepy, and just plain tired. That means you should be sleeping more, not less.

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10 minutes ago, jt07 said:

Maybe but maybe not. A high TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) means your thyroid output is low and your body is trying to stimulate it to get the level back up to normal. If your thyroid output is low, you would be more likely to be lethargic, sleepy, and just plain tired. That means you should be sleeping more, not less.

That’s one thing I know, I work in healthcare hypo thyroid absolutely can cause insomnia

 

hypo and hyper can mimic synptoms

Edited by looking for answers
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Let me ask you a question ... you said that you are not bipolar. Then do you really need the lithium? Could you talk to your doctor about perhaps getting off the lithium? It would be a shame if you damaged your thyroid for a med that may not even be necessary.

However, if you are indeed bipolar or if you are so depressed that you are suicidal then perhaps you really do need the lithium. It's all about balancing risks and benefits. I'm just a little astonished to see your thyroid being affected so soon. I took lithium a couple of times, but one time I was on it for six months and it never affected my thyroid. Do you think you had thyroid problems before you began to take the lithium? That in itself could explain a lot.

I think this is all fertile ground to have a serious conversation with you psychiatrist about.

Maybe even a consult with an endocrinologist too.

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11 minutes ago, jt07 said:

Let me ask you a question ... you said that you are not bipolar. Then do you really need the lithium? Could you talk to your doctor about perhaps getting off the lithium? It would be a shame if you damaged your thyroid for a med that may not even be necessary.

I don’t think I am. But it’s one med that had anti depressive properties that I felt!!!!

11 minutes ago, jt07 said:

However, if you are indeed bipolar or if you are so depressed that you are suicidal then perhaps you really do need the lithium. It's all about balancing risks and benefits. I'm just a little astonished to see your thyroid being affected so soon. I took lithium a couple of times, but one time I was on it for six months and it never affected my thyroid. Do you think you had thyroid problems before you began to take the lithium? That in itself could explain a lot.

Def no thyroid problems before that he regular checks for various other reasons. I’m not suicidal but passive death wish. But that’s gotten so much worse recently it could be from the thyroid issue

11 minutes ago, jt07 said:

I think this is all fertile ground to have a serious conversation with you psychiatrist about.

Maybe even a consult with an endocrinologist too.

Yes you r correct. I see my pcp tonight and tdoc tommorow. Pdoc is there hopefully I can talk to him. Right now I have some bad depression, lethargy, anxiety, and passive death wish. In the interim I need these addressed as well. And to figure out the root of the problem. I’m a little disgusted because it was something that we accidentally stumbled on that iop pdoc wanted to use for irritation and it started helping depression. I also only have a level of 0.55 on 1250! 

 

Thus sucks and thank you you for your help , again

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Just for an "outside the box" thought, I've had good help stabilizing my sleep architecture when a psychNP prescribed me gabapentin (Neurontin) a few years ago. I still sleep better with 0.25-0.5mg clonazepam on top of that, but I don't take the clonazepam every night to avoid building up a tolerance.

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10 minutes ago, Wooster said:

Just for an "outside the box" thought, I've had good help stabilizing my sleep architecture when a psychNP prescribed me gabapentin (Neurontin) a few years ago. I still sleep better with 0.25-0.5mg clonazepam on top of that, but I don't take the clonazepam every night to avoid building up a tolerance.

Could work I’m on klonopin now 1mg

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Did anyone mention mirtazapine? Super sedating. Also, what about Saphris, it is sedating as well and is sublingual so it kicks in quicker. Dont know if anyone mentioned doxepin either or trazodone, might be Haldol would definitely help you sleep! Other options are Elavil. You might have to use a combination of two sedating medications if you really aren't responding to monotherapy for insomnia, but that should be a last resort.

I also agree with a previous post about Halcion. I love it. I take it 5 minutes before getting in bed, and once in bed I drift into sleep within 5 minutes, 10 max. Wake up feeling amazingly refreshed and ready to begin my day.

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4 hours ago, mmaryland said:

Did anyone mention mirtazapine? Super sedating. Also, what about Saphris, it is sedating as well and is sublingual so it kicks in quicker.

I’ve been on remeron before but they stopped it. No mention of saphris

4 hours ago, mmaryland said:

 

Dont know if anyone mentioned doxepin either or trazodone, might be Haldol would definitely help you sleep! Other options are Elavil. You might have to use a combination of two sedating medications if you really aren't responding to monotherapy for insomnia, but that should be a last resort.

I’m using 200 seroquel 150 traz now it’s working

4 hours ago, mmaryland said:

I also agree with a previous post about Halcion. I love it. I take it 5 minutes before getting in bed, and once in bed I drift into sleep within 5 minutes, 10 max. Wake up feeling amazingly refreshed and ready to begin my day.

I take the seroquel about an hour before bed and the traz  when I lay down

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