Zyprexa? Am I out of my mind?

[gb84]

I've been on Zyprexa for about a month.  Even on a keto diet I have gained 15lbs.  I ride my bike and lift pretty much every night.  I love how I feel on Zyprexa, my thoughts are clear, paranoia is pretty much gone, I no longer have the constant ruminating thoughts running through my head.  I can go out in public and feel somewhat comfortable. 

The problem is that I used to weigh 430lbs, even though I had gastric bypass and lost nearly 200lbs I still feel like I am a fat fuck.  I don't know what it is, I can't shake it.  I never feel comfortable with myself.  

I think I'm at the point where I am going to go to the next pdoc appointment and tell her about this and let her decide what is best for me.  I'm tired of researching, suggesting and failing medications.  

Fuck me! 

My brother in law weighs 450lbs and walks around with his shirt off.  

Why can't I just be comfortable with myself.?

Why can't I be in a relationship? 

Why do I hate myself so much? 

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by gb84

[mellifluous]

are you doing therapy? i think that might help. or some support in getting more comfortable with yourself and also, i didn't gain weight on zyprexa, but i have recently gained over five pounds on clozaril and i totally want to discontinue as a result of it. i'm afraid i might have an eating disorder because i'm so nervous about being anything other than slim. 

wow...anyway, maybe i need therapy : p i mean, i'm in therapy. but my point being, i can relate to some of what you're going through and it sucks. i hope your psychiatrist has good options for you! x -melli

[gb84]

I need therapy big time, the problem is that it costs $50 a session.  There is a place where I can get it free based on my income, but the wait list is till September.  

Shit, I hate this.  Thanks for the reply.  Currently watching V for Vendetta, wish I was V. 

[gb84]

Damn, Evy is my dream girl

[notloki]

Given your past history with weight Zyprexa is a bad choice.

[gb84]

19 hours ago, notloki said:

Given your past history with weight Zyprexa is a bad choice.

What is weight neutral and has little chance of movement problems?  Latuda was the best med I was ever on.  But when I got to 120mg, my legs were like riding on a stationary bike and cogentin would only work off and on.  The only thing I like better about Zyprexa is that it makes me sleep. 

[notloki]

Abilify.

[gb84]

I tried that in between Latuda and Zyprexa but it didn't help my crazy thinking and paranoia.  Plus I couldn't sleep, even with a tranquilizer. 

I'm going to try running instead of cycling for a while and see what that does for me. Ive had that thought in my head all day. I think it might be the solution. Cycling is great for my legs but doesn't do much for my upper body.  Which is where I gain weight. 

[notloki]

55 minutes ago, gb84 said:

I tried that in between Latuda and Zyprexa but it didn't help my crazy thinking and paranoia.  Plus I couldn't sleep, even with a tranquilizer. 

I'm going to try running instead of cycling for a while and see what that does for me. Ive had that thought in my head all day. I think it might be the solution. Cycling is great for my legs but doesn't do much for my upper body.  Which is where I gain weight. 

I think everyone experiences intractable insomnia at first with Abilify. I tried huge amounts of benzos and hypnotics to no success. Most find this, the insomnia, goes away with a few weeks time after hitting their target dose. It took me 2 weeks but after that I was able to sleep without additional meds. For crazy and paranoia the dose of Abilify needs to be above 15 mg to act significantly as an AP.

[mellifluous]

On 6/2/2018 at 3:55 PM, gb84 said:

What is weight neutral and has little chance of movement problems?  Latuda was the best med I was ever on.  But when I got to 120mg, my legs were like riding on a stationary bike and cogentin would only work off and on.  The only thing I like better about Zyprexa is that it makes me sleep. 

have you tried geodon or saphris?

[gb84]

1 minute ago, mellifluous said:

have you tried geodon or saphris?

Interestingly, my Dr. wanted to give me samples of Saphris at my last appointment.  Of course, I pushed for Zyprexa.  I haven't tried either of the AP's you listed, but I am willing.  I wanted the Zyprexa, knowing from other posts that it is good for sleep.  I had been on Abilify for a couple months and couldn't sleep, and I don't function well without it. 

Does Saphris or Geodon promote sleep at night?  I don't want to have to take another tranquilizer, I'm on enough crap as it is...

[mellifluous]

i couldn't take saphris because it disagreed with me, so unsure. geodon i didn't find sleep inducing, personally, but you may find otherwise. if your psychiatrist wanted to try you on saphris, i'd give it a go. you could likely divide the dosage or take in the AM if it's too stimulating...?

[gb84]

1 minute ago, mellifluous said:

i couldn't take saphris because it disagreed with me, so unsure. geodon i didn't find sleep inducing, personally, but you may find otherwise. if your psychiatrist wanted to try you on saphris, i'd give it a go. you could likely divide the dosage or take in the AM if it's too stimulating...?

What were some of your issues on Saphris?  If you don't mind me asking.

[mellifluous]

It gave me a weird tongue reaction. That was it. 

[gb84]

4 minutes ago, mellifluous said:

It gave me a weird tongue reaction. That was it. 

Do you think Saphris would be effective for paranoia and rumination based on your experience?

[mellifluous]

I think it probably would if I hadn't had an odd reaction to it. I know others on it who do well to be. 

 

I think it's worth a shot

[gb84]

4 minutes ago, mellifluous said:

I think it probably would if I hadn't had an odd reaction to it. I know others on it who do well to be. 

 

I think it's worth a shot

Cool, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.  If I can't lose the weight I've gained on Zyprexa, I will ask about Saphris and Geodon.

Much appreciated!

[confused]

Zyprexa works really well for me.  I had trouble with weight gain. I am doing okay on abilify (and a small dose of seroquel).  But, if i became more symptomatic i would go back on zyprexa.  It is a good med. (if you are keeping it down to a 15 lb gain that is awesome.)  

i dont know if you count calories, but i am using an app, myfitnesspal, to help me lose weight. It makes calorie counting easier.

many people find abilify stimulating. I have never taken saphris or geodon. I understand geodon can be activating or sedating depending on dosage.

 

[gb84]

1 hour ago, confused said:

Zyprexa works really well for me.  I had trouble with weight gain. I am doing okay on abilify (and a small dose of seroquel).  But, if i became more symptomatic i would go back on zyprexa.  It is a good med. (if you are keeping it down to a 15 lb gain that is awesome.)  

i dont know if you count calories, but i am using an app, myfitnesspal, to help me lose weight. It makes calorie counting easier.

many people find abilify stimulating. I have never taken saphris or geodon. I understand geodon can be activating or sedating depending on dosage.

 

Abilify was really stimulating for me.  I couldn't sleep.  But, I am glad it works for you.

Thanks for the link to the app, I eat a keto diet but never really paid attention to calories.  It actually connects to the app I use for cycling and running. 

[browri]

I found Saphris to be very good at quieting any ruminating thoughts. I actually just wrote a review of my experience on another thread:

All-in-all, mostly weight neutral, and any weight gain that happens is because of the munchies it gives you after taking it. Not too much of an appetite stimulant during the day but it does seem that weight gain on Saphris is MOSTLY contingent on your eating habits, which Saphris can make worse. So you have to have an iron will sometimes. Definitely will help you to sleep at night the way that Zyprexa does. It's even slightly stimulating during the day. Bit of an antidepressant effect too which would be better paired with an antidepressant. When I took Saphris, the only other thing I was taking was Lamictal. My new combo of anticonvulsant+antidepressant+antipsychotic+stimulant works much better for me than anticonvulsant+antipsychotic alone.

[gb84]

1 hour ago, browri said:

I found Saphris to be very good at quieting any ruminating thoughts. I actually just wrote a review of my experience on another thread:

All-in-all, mostly weight neutral, and any weight gain that happens is because of the munchies it gives you after taking it. Not too much of an appetite stimulant during the day but it does seem that weight gain on Saphris is MOSTLY contingent on your eating habits, which Saphris can make worse. So you have to have an iron will sometimes. Definitely will help you to sleep at night the way that Zyprexa does. It's even slightly stimulating during the day. Bit of an antidepressant effect too which would be better paired with an antidepressant. When I took Saphris, the only other thing I was taking was Lamictal. My new combo of anticonvulsant+antidepressant+antipsychotic+stimulant works much better for me than anticonvulsant+antipsychotic alone.

Thanks for posting that.  I'm also taking a similar combo like yours.  Zyprexa, Viibryd, Ritalin, Klonopin and Gabapentin.  The Deplin is helping a lot as well.  I'm definitely interested in saphris although I do feel really good mentally on Zyprexa.  I think if I can't lose the weight I've gained by my next appointment I will ask the doc about it.  Right now I kinda like the challenge.  Just since my first post, I've lost almost 10lbs.  I'm really restricting my diet, drinking only water, coffee, or water with mio for a little flavor.  I've also been riding a 13mi trail every night on my bike.  I seem to do better with physical challenges than mental.  But like I said I like the challenge I'm posed with right now.  We'll see what happens in the next couple months.  My next appointment isn't until the first week of August. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by gb84

[browri]

52 minutes ago, gb84 said:

Thanks for posting that.  I'm also taking a similar combo like yours.  Zyprexa, Viibryd, Ritalin, Klonopin and Gabapentin.  The Deplin is helping a lot as well.  I'm definitely interested in saphris although I do feel really good mentally on Zyprexa.  I think if I can't lose the weight I've gained by my next appointment I will ask the doc about it.  Right now I kinda like the challenge.  Just since my first post, I've lost almost 10lbs.  I'm really restricting my diet, drinking only water, coffee, or water with mio for a little flavor.  I've also been riding a 13mi trail every night on my bike.  I seem to do better with physical challenges than mental.  But like I said I like the challenge I'm posed with right now.  We'll see what happens in the next couple months.  My next appointment isn't until the first week of August. 

Will put a bug in your ear though. Most of the diabetegenic side effects of Zyprexa come from the fact that it's a fairly strong anticholinergic. This also contributes to cognitive problems, blurry vision, not to mention the blood sugar issues, etc. Saphris is much less of an anticholinergic. That activity is to Zyprexa's advantage because it reduces the incidence of movement side effects like restlessness. With Saphris, 5mg at night was a bit too much for me and 2.5mg was just below my akathisia threshold. In retrospect, I would try it again this time now that I'm taking an AD and a stim.

Another thing you could look into is Zyprexa Zydis. The orally disintegrating form. Some clinical data indicates it might cause less weight gain than the tablet. I don't think it's any better from a diabetes risk standpoint but hey, Zyprexa with less weight gain would be awesome.

[gb84]

14 minutes ago, browri said:

Will put a bug in your ear though. Most of the diabetegenic side effects of Zyprexa come from the fact that it's a fairly strong anticholinergic. This also contributes to cognitive problems, blurry vision, not to mention the blood sugar issues, etc. Saphris is much less of an anticholinergic. That activity is to Zyprexa's advantage because it reduces the incidence of movement side effects like restlessness. With Saphris, 5mg at night was a bit too much for me and 2.5mg was just below my akathisia threshold. In retrospect, I would try it again this time now that I'm taking an AD and a stim.

Another thing you could look into is Zyprexa Zydis. The orally disintegrating form. Some clinical data indicates it might cause less weight gain than the tablet. I don't think it's any better from a diabetes risk standpoint but hey, Zyprexa with less weight gain would be awesome.

I definitely don't want diabetes, it runs on my dad's side of the family.  Terrible disease to live with.  Thank you for letting me know about this.  I'm still going to try to lose the weight but I think saphris is starting to sound better.  What did the restlessness feel like on saphris?  I had really bad leg movements on Latuda and that's why I switched.  I guess I don't know the difference between uncontrollable muscle movements and Akathisia... 

[browri]

9 minutes ago, gb84 said:

I definitely don't want diabetes, it runs on my dad's side of the family.  Terrible disease to live with.  Thank you for letting me know about this.  I'm still going to try to lose the weight but I think saphris is starting to sound better.  What did the restlessness feel like on saphris?  I had really bad leg movements on Latuda and that's why I switched.  I guess I don't know the difference between uncontrollable muscle movements and Akathisia... 

When you have really bad akathisia, you'll probably know. On Saphris, 5mg really wasn't that bad to be honest. But my pdoc isn't very tolerant of that in his patients because he's very wary of them developing tardive dyksinesia which is when akathisia becomes more permanent. At 5mg I really just felt like I had to get up and walk around a lot, which you can imagine didn't really jive well with my office job where I sit at a computer all day. Icouldn't sit still for very long. 2.5mg was just fine though. But that's no surprise because I usually only need pediatric doses of AAPs based on my experience. If it's really bad it kinda feels like a rabid butterfly in the pit of your stomach that is telling you to get up and move. That's pretty much the only way I can describe it. One symptom as well that I recall was common when I was on too high and AAP dose but wasn't getting into serious akathisia was I would get "the bouncey leg" while I was sitting at my desk. Just one leg bouncing up and down that wouldn't stay still. If I concentrated on not doing it, then it would stop. But the minute I went back to doing what I was doing, it would start back up again. Could've been a separate anxiety thing though, to be fair.

Edited June 7, 2018 by browri

[gb84]

Is the risk of diabetes higher with Zyprexa than Clozapine?  I was on Clozapine for 6 years.  I gained weight, but never had any signs of diabetes.  

I had gastric bypass surgery so I wonder if I can even get diabetes.  Unless I really blew up to pre surgery weight.  I know that doctors are now doing gastric bypass and gastric sleeve for diabetics to halt the disease. 

See, now you have me worried about Zyprexa and Saphris, lol... 

[browri]

Don't think too much about it. Keep in mind the diabetes risk is statistically higher but you can still fall into that portion of people who don't experience those side effects. Additionally, what dose do you take? Lower doses do carry less of a risk from what my pdoc has told me. We're talking <7.5mg

[gb84]

4 minutes ago, browri said:

Don't think too much about it. Keep in mind the diabetes risk is statistically higher but you can still fall into that portion of people who don't experience those side effects. Additionally, what dose do you take? Lower doses do carry less of a risk from what my pdoc has told me. We're talking <7.5mg

I take 10mg at night and 2.5mg prn.  But I have only taken the 2.5mg a few times, when I was really struggling during the day.  Even that dose made me tired. 

[browri]

12 hours ago, gb84 said:

I take 10mg at night and 2.5mg prn.  But I have only taken the 2.5mg a few times, when I was really struggling during the day.  Even that dose made me tired. 

My pdoc seems to think that the higher doses are more problematic. The usual dosage ranges for Zyprexa can go up to 30mg/day and that's obviously where the real issue comes in. The only reason I quit Zyprexa at 5mg was because it was actually moderately impacting my blood sugar and lipids and I did gain quite a bit of weight. I also didn't follow a good lifestyle to help try and keep the pounds off.