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58 minutes ago, Britton777 said:

You’re the best! The compassion and investment to help I have found here Dillls my heart :) 

I hand tried zyprexa and ability to no avail, but like you said, I have to stop making comparisons (I will try) 

I’m glad to hear it’s helped with instrusive  thoughts and has helped your sleep! 

As far as sleep, I would say that it has gotten a little better. Friday night I didn’t get any sleep, but I got some sleep last night. It still feels lucid and full of unnerving dreams that haunt me the next day, but some sleep is better than no sleep.

Ya, the insomnia side effect of MAOI is very concerning. I haven’t read one review that hasn’t mentioned bad insomnia. That’s the last thing I need. But it does make me wonder, since I do have ADD, “maybe” the stimulant effects “could” help me sleep? Or is that just crazy to think? When I tried Adderall and Ritalin, the first days on each (at baby doses) I took a nap during the day which never happens to me. As I continued to take the micro doses, by days 3-5 on each, OCD became bad and effects of sleep went away. 

I wish I could just stop the geodon and try rixulti, but that’s probably a bad idea...? I would love to feel what it’s like off geodon. Does geodon have serotogentic properties to it too? What about rixulti? (Sorry, I don’t know my meds and mechanisms at all) 

im such a difficult patient as far as how I respond to medication, the doctors seem to let me do my own thing without much guidance, which is kind of scary, but I understand that they don’t know what to do with me. 

I only have the starter pack of rixulti. I see her again in just over 2 weeks, but I’m sure I could go in and get another starter pack from her earlier if needed. 

I am so sensitive, I doubt I would make it to the 1 mg. That’s just my experience. Do you think I should wait a week or two to try rixulti? 

What do you think of the Genomind tests? According to that, I should not be on atypical antipsychotics. I have a high profile for bad side effects and weight gain (I alsreasy very overweight since starting all these meds. Geodon did a number on me, but what really for me was Remeron) I have a bad profile for SSRI’s as well. 

You’re the best! TY! 

I wouldn't stop the geodon Cold w/o dr and especially before the rexulti has a chance to work. Have u tried saphris? Thought u might but I can't see ur sig

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1 hour ago, Iceberg said:

I wouldn't stop the geodon Cold w/o dr and especially before the rexulti has a chance to work. Have u tried saphris? Thought u might but I can't see ur sig

 

Edited by Britton777

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43 minutes ago, Iceberg said:

I wouldn't stop the geodon Cold w/o dr and especially before the rexulti has a chance to work. Have u tried saphris? Thought u might but I can't see ur sig

Here is my ultra long list of meds/supplements/herbs I have tried over the years. 

Meds/supplements I've tried for sleep and anxiety, but have had adverse reactions to, mostly paradoxical reactions: 

 

•Ambien (caused mania and no sleep) 

•Lunesta (was awake all night with mind going all over)

•Restoril (up all night with mind all over) 

•Rozerem (tried again 8-7-2018)

•Belsomra (awake with mind all over) 

•Temazapam (couldn’t sleep at all) 

•Xyrem (kind of worked for 3 days but then stopped. Caused severe anxiety) 

•Phenobarbital (please ask) 

•Chloral Hydrate (didn’t help) 

•Naltrexone (felt like I was “tripping”)

•LDN (made me feel weird)

•Propranolol (makes anxiety worse)

•Clonodine (makes anxiety worse) 

•Labetotol (makes anxiety worse) 

•Prazosin (currently on) 

•Gabepentin (manic trippy feeling) 

•Celebrex (weird thoughts) 

•Klonopin (didn’t help sleep, made anxiety worse) 

•Valium (didn’t help made anxiety worse) 

•Xanax (didn’t help made anxiety worse)

•Ativan (currently on. doesn’t help anxiety or sleep)

•Ketamine infusion (did 3 infusions. Didn’t help. Last infusion I had severe panic)

•Adderall (helped a little at fist, but not much. After 3 days it made OCD thoughts worse and stopped calming me down)

•Ritalin (just recently tried at a low dose. Didn’t help) 

•Intuniv (made me worse. Anxiety. No sleep) 

•Requip (weird night. No sleep) 

•Valerian root (doesn’t help may make me worse) 

•Skull cap (sometimes calms me down, sometimes makes me worse. Doesn’t help with sleep) 

•Passion flower (up all night) 

•Kava (up all night. Crazy thoughts) 

•Kratom (awful) 

L-THP (up all night with mind going crazy) 

•Lemon balm (awful) 

•Rhodiola (awful) 

•Ashagawanda (kind of calms me down sometimes sometimes not. Does not help with sleep) 

•California Poppy (mixed feelings. Doesn’t help with sleep) 

•Melatonin (does not help with sleep at low or high doses. Makes me feel crazy)

Magnesium (all different forms- doesn’t help)

•NAC

•L-theanine (made me feel crazy worse anxiety) 

•Inositol (made me feel crazy with worse anxiety) 

•L Dopa (made me feel crazy, no sleep) 

•DHEA (helped some for anxiety for a couple days but then made me very irritable and agitated. Did not help with sleep) 

•Oleamide (felt crazy. Did not help with sleep) 

•Calcium 

•Lithium orotate (made me feel crazy. No sleep) 

•progesterone (bio identical) 

•Estrogen (tried patch, gel and drops bio identical and synthetic)

•Glutathione (very anxious)

•Dexamethasone (took a short nap several hours after taking it, but made me feel crazy. Didn’t help with sleep that night) 

•Prednisone (seemed to sort of help with anxiety at a very low dose for a few days, then flipped and made me feel worse) 

Benadryl (I use this almost daily for MCAS does not help with sleep) 

•Chlorpheniramine

•Phenergan (made me feel weird. Didn’t help with sleep or calm me down) 

•Medical marijuana (sometimes calms me down, sometimes makes me paranoid and anxiety worse. Does not help with sleep) 

•CBD (makes my anxiety go through the roof) 

•Hydroxyzine/vistoril (paradoxical) 

•Benadryl (doesn’t do anything either way) 

 •Over the counter sleep medications (paradoxical) 

•Flexeril (made anxiety worse didn’t help with sleep) 

•Zanaflex (did not help sleep. Causes hallucinations. Scary medication for me) 

Have tried many antidepressants and antipsychotics meds that are supposed to help with sleep and anxiety but didn’t: 

•Zyprexa (restless, agitated, no sleep, migraine) 

•Depakote (restless worse anxiety no sleep)

•Saphris (restless, anxious, did my calm me down or help me sleep) 

•Lamictal (didn’t help, made me feel worse) 

•Lithium (didn’t help) 

•Latuda (made me feel worse) 

•Resperidone (made me worse) 

•Topomax (didn’t help made me feel worse) 

•Thorazine (very recently tried this. Was so hopeful but did not help me sleep. Mind all over at night. Sever anxiety the next day) 

•haldol ( did not help me calm down or sleep. Made me MUCH worse) 

•geodon (currently on. Used to help for the first 2 years on it. Not sure what it does to me now) 

•Buspar (didn’t help worse) 

•doxepin (paradoxical up all night with anxiety) 

•Amitryptaline (did not help with sleep or anxiety) 

•Anafranil (made me feel weird. No sleep)

•Trazadone (worked years ago but now I’m paradoxical and it causes high blood pressure and anxiety) 

•Serzone (didn’t help) 

•Remeron (I am weaning off this now. Worked well for insomnia from June 2010-October 2014 then stopped) 

•Seroquel (worked for sleep in 2005) Tried it again 2 different times in 2015 and had paradoxical reactions. Had akathisia and severe panic attacks. Sky rocket heart rate) 

Most SSRI’s 

•Zoloft (currently on but weaning off) 

1/2 Soma made me feel really weird like I was tripping and wasn’t able to sleep. 

Narcotics don’t calm me down at all. They actually give me headaches and make me feel worse. 

Remeron was the only thing that helped for 4 years then stopped working overnight. I am weaning off this now. 

Years ago seroquel helped (around 2004-2005) but gained a lot of weight and stopped. Tried it again several different times over the past 4 years and now I have terrible paradoxical reactions. Causes akathisia. 

Same happened with trazadone. Helped, then stopped (around 2005-2007) Tried it again in 2014, 2016 and 2018 and it wired me and caused high blood pressure rapid heartbeat.  Could not sleep on it. Made me “trip” 

All sleeping meds cause a paradoxical reaction on me and make me wired and spun out. Worse racing thoughts. 

Have not tried Nozinan (but I don’t think it’s available in the US) 

Could the non 24 medication Tasimelteon help me? 

Have not tried halcion, but given my reactions to other benzodiazepines I’m not sure if it would help or make me worse. 

Have read about anti-cytokines for depression. Not sure if they help with anxiety and sleep. 

I have adverse effects to vitamins and supplements. For example I even have effects to vitamin d. I know this sounds crazy, but it makes me manic and spun out and into a panic attack. I have tried various forms and brands. DHEA made me extremely agitated. B vitamin wire me make my anxious and make insomnia even worse. These are just some examples. 

Alcohol does not make me tired or sleepy

Tried TMS therapy but didn’t help at all 

One session ECT electroconvulsive shock in June of 2018 this made my nightmares and insomnia worse. Oxygen went to 70% so I couldn’t do more. 

I’m sure I have forgotten meds/supplements that I have tried. 

Does this list make you think there’s no hope for me? :( 

Edited by Britton777

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TCA but newer then the other common ones...supposedly has (some antipsychotic properties) and kicks in reasonably fast. Came up with me once. That said the side effects can be rough and it's not prescribed often 

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18 minutes ago, Iceberg said:

Have u ever heard of asendin (amoxapine)?

Have never heard of it.... what are the bad side effects? (I can look it up too) 

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Not lie they're pretty wide ranging. Most of the TCA stuff, sedation, some of the hormonal issues associate with antipsychotics. Wasn't necessarily recommending it, just curious if it came up 

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On 1/20/2019 at 4:05 PM, Iceberg said:

Not lie they're pretty wide ranging. Most of the TCA stuff, sedation, some of the hormonal issues associate with antipsychotics. Wasn't necessarily recommending it, just curious if it came up 

Has never come up. I’d love the sedation!! But certain it wouldn’t do that to me. Elavil and doxepin wire me to no end. 

Hormonal issues with antipsychotics? 

I did try Saphris. Made all my symptoms worse.....  

Not that I’m going to do this, but what could going off geodon do to me? Is coming off antipsychotics difficult? Same/worse than antidepressants? Obviously nothing is worse than coming off benzos. 

What do you think about Genomind tests? I listed 2 pages from my test in another post. 

Edited by Britton777

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3 minutes ago, cakepop said:

Have you tried increasing the Geodon dosage?

I have. About 2 years ago I tried going up to I think 40 am and 60 pm. I think I even tried 80 mg at one point, but didn’t help. Made me worse. 

I was on 20 mg for years and years. I only added the 2nd 20 mg in I think 2016-2017. 

Im wondering if geodon is part of my problem.... 

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39 minutes ago, Britton777 said:

Has never come up. I’d love the sedation!! But certain it wouldn’t do that to me. Elavil and doxepin wire me to be end. 

Hormonal issues with antipsychotics? 

I did try Saphris. Made all my symptoms worse.....  

Not that I’m going to do this, but what could going off geodon do to me? Is coming off antipsychotics difficult? Same/worse than antidepressants? Obviously nothing is worse than coming off benzos. 

What do you think about Genomind tests? I listed 2 pages from my test in another post. 

Did you ever try the loxapine that was prescribed to you? It is related to amoxapine.

amoxapine is an ad that has some antipsychotic effects while loxapine is an antipsychotic proper.

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18 minutes ago, Britton777 said:

I have. About 2 years ago I tried going up to I think 40 am and 60 pm. I think I even tried 80 mg at one point, but didn’t help. Made me worse. 

I was on 20 mg for years and years. I only added the 2nd 20 mg in I think 2016-2017. 

Im wondering if geodon is part of my problem.... 

Looking at Wikipedia, it appears that geodon has a greater affinity as a partial agonist to various serotonin receptors, over dopamine or reuptake. Logically that could explain why higher doses made things worse. Either due to NET/SERT or dopamine blockade.

doxepin and elavil both hit, amongst other receptors, SERT and NET, so if we are looking for patterns between the 3 meds mentioned, it may be the reuptake effect that is screwing you up. NET is stimulating, anxiety causing, etc.

take that all with a grain of salt of course as I’m not a doc, nor am I a trained professional.

rexulti has mostly the same partial agonism and antagonism to the same serotonin receptors to geodon but lacks SERT and NET. Its selective partial agonism of the dopamine receptors, will in theory be different than the full antagonism of all the other antipsychotics you have taken before.

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8 minutes ago, argh said:

Looking at Wikipedia, it appears that geodon has a greater affinity as a partial agonist to various serotonin receptors, over dopamine or reuptake. Logically that could explain why higher doses made things worse. Either due to NET/SERT or dopamine blockade.

doxepin and elavil both hit, amongst other receptors, SERT and NET, so if we are looking for patterns between the 3 meds mentioned, it may be the reuptake effect that is screwing you up. NET is stimulating, anxiety causing, etc.

take that all with a grain of salt of course as I’m not a doc, nor am I a trained professional.

rexulti has mostly the same partial agonism and antagonism to the same serotonin receptors to geodon but lacks SERT and NET. Its selective partial agonism of the dopamine receptors, will in theory be different than the full antagonism of all the other antipsychotics you have taken before.

???

Thank you for looking into this!!!!! 

Different than seroquel? Zyprexa? Haldol? Etc? Different than the ones on my list!?

but if I were to try it WITH geodon, the geodon would still likely mess things up..? 

Edited by Britton777

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24 minutes ago, Britton777 said:

???

Thank you for looking into this!!!!! 

Different than seroquel? Zyprexa? Haldol? Etc? Different than the ones on my list!?

but if I were to try it WITH geodon, the geodon would still likely mess things up..? 

Np , I’m still putting off doing things I should have done during my last depressive blip...home looks like crazy people live there..mess, dirt, extreme clutter..so much for new year blank slate cleaning frenzy... this is a fascinating distraction.

different than all of them with respect to dopamine. There are three aaps on the us market with selective partial dopamine agonism. Abilify, rexulti, vraylar. Unless I missed it, I don’t see them on your list.

what browri and others suggest is more along the lines of a cross titrate, so you ramp up one while decreasing the other to avoid any poss withdrawal effects. In theory a bit smoother than titrations full off before starting a new drug.

even if you are not, taking your history into account, im hopeful that rexulti will work for you so long as you stick with it once you have started it up.

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9 minutes ago, argh said:

Np , I’m still putting off doing things I should have done during my last depressive blip...home looks like crazy people live there..mess, dirt, extreme clutter..so much for new year blank slate cleaning frenzy... this is a fascinating distraction.

different than all of them with respect to dopamine. There are three aaps on the us market with selective partial dopamine agonism. Abilify, rexulti, vraylar. Unless I missed it, I don’t see them on your list.

what browri and others suggest is more along the lines of a cross titrate, so you ramp up one while decreasing the other to avoid any poss withdrawal effects. In theory a bit smoother than titrations full off before starting a new drug.

even if you are not, taking your history into account, im hopeful that rexulti will work for you so long as you stick with it once you have started it up.

Glad it’s a distraction for you instead of cleaning your house! Lol! If it weren’t for my husband, I would be living in a house that looked like a hoarder and filthy. The Funny, not funny thing is that my former self kept an emaculate house. 

i have tried abilify. It was a long time ago and don’t know much except I didn’t stay on it. I might need to add that to my list. 

I am nervous that l-dopa fucked me up. 

What if I try rixulti and I have a bad effect of worsening symptoms? Should I still stay on it? I just can’t do it when things make me feel manic or racy like my heads about to blow. Or if the dissociative symptoms are worse. And of course anxiety/panic. 

Edited by Britton777

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29 minutes ago, Britton777 said:

Glad it’s a distraction for you instead of cleaning your house! Lol

i have tried abilify. It was a long time ago and don’t know much except I didn’t stay on it. I might need to add that to my list. 

What if I try rixulti and I have a bad effect of worsening symptoms? Should I still stay on it? I just can’t do it when things make me feel manic or racy like my heads about to blow. Or if the dissociative symptoms are worse. And of course anxiety/panic. 

Abilify is said to be activating at low doses and sedating at higher. Rexulti is said to be the opposite...calming at low and activating at high doses. Funny you should mention that as my prior thread asking about both abilify and geodon, got the same anecdotal caution about anxiety.

https://www.crazyboards.org/forums/index.php?/topic/96521-abilify-vs-geodon-experiences-for-subthreshold-bipolar/

as far as what happens, there’s no way to tell really until you do it. It may be a matter of cold turkeying the geodon immediately and continuing with the rexulti or dropping the rexulti if you hit a snag with cross titration. Cross that bridge when you there.

if you want a clear answer you need to titrate off geodon fully, wait a few weeks and get on rexulti. Otherwise you won’t know what is doing what, good or bad.

any tapering plans must be done with the guidance of your dr.

 

Edited by argh

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17 minutes ago, argh said:

Abilify is said to be activating at low doses and sedating at higher. Rexulti is said to be the opposite...calming at low and activating at high doses. Funny you should mention that as my prior thread asking about both abilify and geodon, got the same anecdotal caution about anxiety.

https://www.crazyboards.org/forums/index.php?/topic/96521-abilify-vs-geodon-experiences-for-subthreshold-bipolar/

as far as what happens, there’s no way to tell really until you do it. It may be a matter of cold turkeying the geodon immediately and continuing with the rexulti or dropping the rexulti if you hit a snag with cross titration. Cross that bridge when you there.

if you want a clear answer you need to titrate off geodon fully, wait a few weeks and get on rexulti. Otherwise you won’t know what is doing what, good or bad.

 

Yikes. Would coming off geodon be very difficult?

i was reading your thread. Did I read it correctly that most agree that abilify and rixulti INCREASE anxiety at low doses? Do both of these meds have the potential to increase anxiety? Sorry, I’m confused. 

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6 minutes ago, Britton777 said:

Yikes. Would coming off geodon be very difficult?

i was reading your thread. Did I read it correctly that most agree that abilify and rixulti INCREASE anxiety at low doses? Do both of these meds have the potential to increase anxiety? Sorry, I’m confused. 

Withdrawal is generally personal. There are certain drugs that are generally acknowledged to have a rough withdrawal, yet even then the difficulty will vary. I’ve never been on geodon, or any ap for that matter so I couldn’t tell you if it would or wouldn’t.

in that thread most agree that it is geodon and abilify with the potential to increase anxiety as they are said to be activating.

Browri made the distinction that while chemically related to abilify, rexulti is calming and he’s had a great and calming experience with it.

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36 minutes ago, argh said:

Withdrawal is generally personal. There are certain drugs that are generally acknowledged to have a rough withdrawal, yet even then the difficulty will vary. I’ve never been on geodon, or any ap for that matter so I couldn’t tell you if it would or wouldn’t.

in that thread most agree that it is geodon and abilify with the potential to increase anxiety as they are said to be activating.

Browri made the distinction that while chemically related to abilify, rexulti is calming and he’s had a great and calming experience with it.

Got it. Thank you. I got confused. 

Do you know if ap’s are generally haedcroccome off of? I know antidepressants and benzos are very difficult (I know everyone is different ;)

thanks again for you time. I know it must feel like going in circles talking to me. I’m so sorry. 

Edited by Britton777

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