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According to an esteemed author, who I'm not gonna mention here because even bad people deserve some amount of anonymity, wrote a book describing people with OCPD as 'bulls' needing to be tamed. 'Borderlines' and 'psychopaths' were called tigers. The gist was, us personality disordereds are predatory animals incapable of controlling ourselves, and must therefore be tamed by those around us.

Not surprisingly, the author also bizarrely recommends this 'taming' as opposed to leaving these apparently inherently abusive relationships. 

Now, I've always thought of myself as more of a whale (Pisces!) but really I'm just a hideous, uncontrolled, abusive creature. I know these kind of cruel assumptions are nothing new on this board, but it stings. Why don't people think we aren't human? I'm putting this in the PD bit because it's relevant to my discovery, but I know full well those with psychotic/dissociative disorders get this treatment in spades as well. I'm singling out PD's, psychosis and disorders like DID not because other psychological disorders aren't stigmatised against, but there are particular and enduring stereotypes about these that are unique. 

Anyway my moment of monsterdom (getting dramatic because if you don't laugh, you'll cry) came when I told a coworker that I had OCPD and she immediately started telling me about how much she loved true crime and sadistic psychopath serial killers. For context- we were at a work day out and painting pottery lol. She heard personality disorder and went straight to murder. 

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i've always thought of myself as a cat. never had much affinity to bulls.  i do wonder how he picked the bull, though given the sense i get from this guy, i bet it wasn't with a lot more thought than "what's a scary animal that needs taming?" i maybe would have picked an army ant. they do this thing called an ant mill or death spiral where they lose track of of the scent they're following, and just march and march forwards in this spiral of ants until they starve to death. i feel like that when i lose the big picture of what i'm working on and work endlessly on details, all while wondering why i'm not getting anywhere. plus the ant work ethic is comparable to what OCPD wishes i could do.

also, the thing about """""taming""""" a PD is such a load of bullshit. changing PD behaviour is something that usually takes years of therapy and unlearning, and god knows nobody can do that work for you but you. telling people that it's up to them to conquer their loved ones' PDs is a surefire way to give people unrealistic expectations and maybe also like, martyr complexes, but it also contributes to the massive mountain of stigma that PD = abusive. i don't need to be tamed. i know plenty of people who like me the way i am. i have functional human relationships that are supportive and uplifting to everyone involved. do i wish i could change some of my thought patterns? of course. is possible? maybe. is it anyone's job but my own? fuck no.

i'm sorry you came across that. it shouldn't need saying, but you aren't a monster, and it's nobody's business to change you. also, fuck your coworker. that's a stupid thing to say to someone who's just opened up to you about something as personal as a psychiatric diagnosis. i get that she's probably just misinformed, but why would you say that instead of, "oh, what's that like for you?" or something like that? it's not hard to be reasonably respectful, but amazingly, people still totally suck at it.

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It was absolutely pin the tail on the scary animal. Probably some other romantic notions about red flags but I only saw a bit of this book. Damn ants are OCPD. Apparently if an ant is slightly wounded the others will pick it up and take it to safety. But if an ant is mortally wounded, it'll move away from the group to die alone. Now THAT'S efficiency. Harder to tame the ant though 😂

6 hours ago, echolocation said:

telling people that it's up to them to conquer their loved ones' PDs is a surefire way to give people unrealistic expectations and maybe also like, martyr complexes

mmm it's almost as if it's a terrible idea... Yeah like it's very strange complaining about your partners controlling behaviour (which fair enough is bad) but then to counter that with even MORE controlling behaviour. Sounds more like wrestling than a relationship. 

Is it exceptional for people with PD's to actively seek and want help? I knew I was effed up for a while and I was so happy to get a diagnosis appointment. It sucks hearing you have a personality disorder but I've literally been in therapy since getting diagnosed 4/5 years ago and made a lot of progress. I wasn't dragged, kicking and screaming, by a partner. 

Yeah luckily that work event was a big goodbye to a bunch of us because our contracts ran out. I think she just went to the first place she could think of in her mind. At least she didn't fire up the torches and get a pitchfork? Eh, strangely enough people with these opinions tend to be weirder than I am, and damn it I need to be tamed. The more I think about it the more weirdly kinky it sounds 😆BDSM your own bull

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i've got that song "can't be tamed" by miley cyrus in my head. who knew it was a PD anthem? 

8 hours ago, ananke said:

Is it exceptional for people with PD's to actively seek and want help?

this is such a good question. i think it maybe depends on your level on insight, but isn't that true for MI in general? people are really fast to call personality disorder on abusive individuals, which makes it seem like nobody with a PD wants help, but it totally ignores the silent majority of people who have diagnosed PDs (often discovered while seeking help for other mental illnesses) and work on it the same way they work on their other issues.

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Oh lawks, I don't know if Miley helps our image or not 🙈

Yeah, I've heard it go all sorts of ways- high functioning but want help, low functioning but don't realise they can be helped, etc. Guess we're just all individuals. I heard people with OCPD tend not to seek help for OCPD behaviours but anxious or depressive tendencies. Which sounds like we don't recognise our own OCPD behaviour but also who the heck hears of this disorder prior to diagnosis? I didn't and I have a degree in this field. Actually I could go on a whole rant about how people misinterpret things like 'ego syntonic' and 'ego dystonic' but I'll spare you the lecture!

It's very difficult having been in an abusive relationship to go online for help and find these kind of unhealthy spaces where people clearly aren't ready to move on from their trauma, so they label everything as X personality disorder. I get it but it does seem more like they are stuck more so than trying to actually benefit survivors/victims.

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On 4/26/2019 at 11:02 AM, ananke said:

Oh lawks, I don't know if Miley helps our image or not 🙈

Yeah, I've heard it go all sorts of ways- high functioning but want help, low functioning but don't realise they can be helped, etc. Guess we're just all individuals. I heard people with OCPD tend not to seek help for OCPD behaviours but anxious or depressive tendencies. Which sounds like we don't recognise our own OCPD behaviour but also who the heck hears of this disorder prior to diagnosis? I didn't and I have a degree in this field. Actually I could go on a whole rant about how people misinterpret things like 'ego syntonic' and 'ego dystonic' but I'll spare you the lecture!

It's very difficult having been in an abusive relationship to go online for help and find these kind of unhealthy spaces where people clearly aren't ready to move on from their trauma, so they label everything as X personality disorder. I get it but it does seem more like they are stuck more so than trying to actually benefit survivors/victims.

How about low functioning and lost all hope that one can be helped. Heh. 

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That's also certainly a possibility! Though I'd take a thousand you's over one 'personality disorders need to be tamed!' sane person any day

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Fortunately, I’ve only been dx’d with traits for the past couple of decades but still low to non-functional. 

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Breadth is missed a lot in disability/mental health discussions. Like having a bands worth of diagnoses can be as exhausting as one severe one. Ask my 10 anxiety disorders 😁

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30 minutes ago, ananke said:

Breadth is missed a lot in disability/mental health discussions. Like having a bands worth of diagnoses can be as exhausting as one severe one. Ask my 10 anxiety disorders 😁

So true. Sigh. 

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On 4/25/2019 at 6:55 PM, ananke said:

According to an esteemed author, who I'm not gonna mention here because even bad people deserve some amount of anonymity, wrote a book describing people with OCPD as 'bulls' needing to be tamed. 'Borderlines' and 'psychopaths' were called tigers. The gist was, us personality disordereds are predatory animals incapable of controlling ourselves, and must therefore be tamed by those around us.

Not surprisingly, the author also bizarrely recommends this 'taming' as opposed to leaving these apparently inherently abusive relationships. 

Now, I've always thought of myself as more of a whale (Pisces!) but really I'm just a hideous, uncontrolled, abusive creature. I know these kind of cruel assumptions are nothing new on this board, but it stings. Why don't people think we aren't human? I'm putting this in the PD bit because it's relevant to my discovery, but I know full well those with psychotic/dissociative disorders get this treatment in spades as well. I'm singling out PD's, psychosis and disorders like DID not because other psychological disorders aren't stigmatised against, but there are particular and enduring stereotypes about these that are unique. 

Anyway my moment of monsterdom (getting dramatic because if you don't laugh, you'll cry) came when I told a coworker that I had OCPD and she immediately started telling me about how much she loved true crime and sadistic psychopath serial killers. For context- we were at a work day out and painting pottery lol. She heard personality disorder and went straight to murder. 

When the pot screams the kettle is black there is usually something wrong with them.  Painting someone with such broad strokes as tigers and bulls and trying to suggest to others do same screams narcissism to me.

Nobody enjoys having a mental illness.  Besides there is that debate that borderline is actually a mental condition- like bipolar.  It hurts to feel the way we do and it wouldn't actually hurt to show some compassion.  Not label people as animals.

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1 hour ago, ananke said:

? I thought all PD's are mental conditions?

They are.   There seems to be a prejudice against axis 1 vs.  axis 2 diagnoses.  Axis 2 diagnosis is pd diagnosis, and seems to be the one people discriminate against.

A while back I was on a mental health chat that refused to discuss borderline PD and other PD's.

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Ahhh I see. Yeah the whole axes thing never made sense to me. Wow what a welcoming chat 🙄it always strikes me that these people are the ones who would struggle the most if they were diagnosed with a PD. It's not a pleasant diagnosis 

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A close friend of mine has BPD and the opinion of our friend group is that if he was an animal he would be a teddy bear.

I had to encourage him for a while to get help, but it wasn't because he didn't want help. He had grown up with the message (like a lot of us do) that a person is supposed to deal with mental health problems by "pulling themselves up by the bootstraps" and he had kept working really hard trying to do it that way. Our conversations were about how he deserved to feel better and he deserved help.

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Yeah :( so many troubling messages about our health in society. We're social animals, the idea that it's healthy or productive to do it all on your own hurts people.

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Posted (edited)

this reminds me of all the questionable articles on "narcissistic abuse." these articles are spread like a plague,  imo,i have a vague suspicion that it is in fact the ones that frequently vilify so-called narcissists with a kind of vengeance who are the true "narcissists". i also feel like narcissism is one of the most overused and abused words, it's really a technical term used by clinicians, but people seem to have co-adopted it as a sophisticated insult - kind of like 'borderline personality'- a fancy way of saying someone is "self-absorbed"  or something when it's actually much more subtle than that. iv met many people who likely would have been deemed by these people as 'narcissistic' who may have even been harmful for me.. but didn't often feel an urge to vilify them. it's the ones with a pretense of sanity that really bother me.

Edited by jeva39

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One of the many issues with PD's is how they were named. Narcissist is a common enough description that people can either mean it generally or (if they read a single Psychology Today article) in terms of the PD. One of the features of NPD that I've heard is extremely low self esteem, which wouldn't describe a lot of the people who are called narcissistic. 

They're trying to rename a bunch of them. BPD is sometimes Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (which IMO sounds even worse) and OCPD can be Anankastic PD (hence my name!). The problem is is that a psychological rose by any other name still smells as stigmatised.

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Lots of excessive pd dx’s but I know of at least two people that are without a doubt, clinical malignant narcissistic personality disorder. 

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I talked to someone with OCPD for a long time and I'm pretty sure they were human and not a bull needing to be tamed. I don't think bulls feel such anxiety and guilt and shame and despair. So I shit on whoever said that from a great height. I shit in their bed. I shit in their sandwich. I shit in their shoes. It takes a bull to make bullshit so whoever wrote that bullshit would be far better described as being a bull than you.

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