God Help Us...

[revlow]

In case you haven't heard: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060321/ap_on_re_us/teacher_sex and http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...-home-headlines -- almost identical; couple more paragraphs in the second.

As if being bipolar weren't bad enough. Saw her live press conference today. God forbid, it was infuriating.

Maybe this belongs in the "News of the World" forum? Put it here since it's *about* us.

[LunaRufina]

This makes me want to vomit.

But I won't.

Instead, I'm going to dress up like Big Bird  and try to mate with every ostrich in captivity.

WHY? Because I am bipolar.

And if I am put in jail, it will be because of the cruel, heartless media bastards who just don't understand my love of animals; my desire to be a zookeeper and my wish to spread knowledge of avian mating habits.

Fucking fuck.

...all right.

in all fairness, I heard/read about this earlier and was just ranting and raving like the loon I am.

-----

and the point is the same no matter how big or small the case is.

it's bullshit.

[AirMarshall]

I loved the quotes from this gal about how she just wants people to "understand bipolar".

The NEW Bipolar = License to rape, pillage and loot.

A.M.

[LunaRufina]

The NEW Bipolar = License to rape, pillage and loot.

A.M.

Erik and Ghengis were bipolar, didn't you know that?

Hell yeah.

[revlow]

On top of it all, during her live press conference, she talked about how she was going to become a journalist.

If there isn't already, there should be a smilie for Gag!!!

I keep thinking of a paraplegic friend, with CP. During the whole Elizabeth Bouvia (also with CP) media mess, whenever someone would ask my friend what had happened to her, she'd say 'Nam. It happened in Viet Nam.

[Iona_Viona]

this is so wrong. i am a teacher and i have bipolar but i am NOT and NEVER will go around screwing little kids. i work my ass off to show everyone around me that having a mental illness does not impact on my ability to teach and be a good role model for my students and this sex offender goes and tries to use  her mental illness as an excuse. makes me sick. poor kid. she is a pedophile and that is that. no sympathy from me.

[grousemouse]

i saw a snippet of an interview (on cnn of all dodgy sources) with her ex-husband and he commented that he knew several people who were bipolar who were realtively normal people. and didn't describe her as 'insane'.

what a forward thinking term that one. oh well.

grouse.

[velveteen]

I am not bipolar but I think it's disgusting that she uses this as an "excuse" for her behaviour.  It really pisses me off!!!

I'm sorry that people like this give those of you who are dealing with it as "normally" as possible, a really bad name. 

[Ophelia]

just shoot me now...

[Rabbit37]

Why is it if this were a *man* having sex with a 14yo girl, and then claimed bipolar, he'd be put in front of the firing squad. I hate the double standard.

[chinacat]

Face it, folks--first , we are THE diagnosis of the month, possibly the year.  Its COOL to be BP.  There--don't you feel better?  I know I do---

And fact #2--have you SEEN this chick? She is absolutely drop-dead gorgeous, white blond (naturally) hair, huge blue eyes,  Her attourney's argument at one point was that she was "way too pretty for jail"

The picture with the article is a grotesque, possibly altered mug shot. I am telling you this chick would stop you dead on the streets she is so stunning-looking. She sure ain't no Mary AnnLeTourneau!

So what have we learned here, kiddies?  First, and only--if you are a drop-dead gorgeous 20-something who cliams BP, you can fuck 14  year olds to your heart's content. (And reminder--the boy was less than 10 years younger than she was--)

What a happy world we live in--and you all thought I was just disgruntled when I said Florida was weird to the bone.

I rest my case.

China---who  IS BP, and kinda cute, but unfortunately not 22 or THAT blonde, and fortunately, prefers ,much older men

[Velvet Elvis]

It boils down to the fact that society requires that people be responsible for their actions if they don't want to be locked up. Speaking as someone whose impulsitivity landed him in a courtroom a time a two, this anoys me.  It doesn't matter WHY a person does the things they do.  People can't do things that are harmful to others or society at large if society if this whole civil society thing is going to work.

[LunaRufina]

...and you all thought I was just disgruntled when I said Florida was weird to the bone.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HA!

I am pretty sure this is something you had said before, but it made me laugh.

[crazynotstupid]

The picture with the article is a grotesque, possibly altered mug shot. I am telling you this chick would stop you dead on the streets she is so stunning-looking. She sure ain't no Mary AnnLeTourneau!

Nah...belive me, mug shots NEVER flatter.  You should see a couple of mine--hello Unabomner Jr.!

It boils down to the fact that society requires that people be responsible for their actions if they don't want to be locked up. Speaking as someone whose impulsitivity landed him in a courtroom a time a two, this anoys me.  It doesn't matter WHY a person does the things they do.  People can't do things that are harmful to others or society at large if society if this whole civil society thing is going to work.

Indeed.  From someone who's been there, done that, and has the record to prove it.

[Sam]

I almost posted a thread about this yesterday.

Then I thought about all the people who have been dx'ed as bipolar and have murdered people. I wondered if it was just popular to be BP now, or if it was really legit and it is just being recognized more. Because it seems like EVERY SINGLE murderer is bipolar these days. But I have always said you HAVE to be crazy to kill someone (self-defense, etc not withstanding.) I mean, there's SOMETHING wrong with them, right?

This won't be a popular stance, but I will tell you that the vast majority of my manic misdeeds have been sexual in nature.

I am not condoning her behavior, but neither am I saying that she is using BPD as an excuse. Unmedicated, I have made some wrong choices myself.

Sam

[SerraGeorge]

this is so wrong. i am a teacher and i have bipolar but i am NOT and NEVER will go around screwing little kids. i work my ass off to show everyone around me that having a mental illness does not impact on my ability to teach and be a good role model for my students and this sex offender goes and tries to use  her mental illness as an excuse. makes me sick. poor kid. she is a pedophile and that is that. no sympathy from me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hear you Iona! Before I was too broken, I was a swimming teacher, and even at my worst, I would rather cut off my own arm than hurt my kids! Maybe it's just the way my hypomania/ mania would manifest itself, but protecting and teaching them was always the most important thing to me. Never never never never would I even imagine abusing any of them in the way she did! Ever! Children are and have always been the joy and light of my life though, so maybe that's got something to do with it. I would remove myself from their presence before allowing my bipolar symptoms to affect them negatively.

And the double standard bothers me too. If this were a male teacher, he'd be swinging by sundown. Bipolar or not.

[Seldarin]

I wish I felt popular for being bipolar. 

What'll prolly happen is this'll make it suck even more to be bipolar for a while with even more stigma than usual, then it'll blow over.

Most people aren't real bright and can't entertain more than one concept at a time.

So when MDD or Aspergers or something else becomes the serial killer/child molester/terrorist of the week, people will forget about it and live in terror of them for a while.

No, this is not a good thing.

Just look what happened to schitzophrenia. For ages it was what drove all the malcontents and misfits. Probably not 1 in 20 actually HAD it. Now no one knows what the hell it is.

If she wants to 'understand' bipolar, tell her to go sit in a fucking corner and cry for about six hours, then go spend $500 on fudgecicles and eat them all because it seemed like a good idea at the time. (That's not putting down bipolars, just similar to the kind of stuff I do.)

At least she won't be fucking kids anymore.

Want a double standard? If she wasn't drop dead gorgeous or even cute she'd be swinging by sundown too. The male judges will wish they'd gotten a chance like that in school, she'll get a slap on the wrist, and that'll be the end of it.

[Thomas]

Want a double standard? If she wasn't drop dead gorgeous or even cute she'd be swinging by sundown too. The male judges will wish they'd gotten a chance like that in school, she'll get a slap on the wrist, and that'll be the end of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and probably some on the jury

[Loon-A-TiK]

I totally understand that our BP makes us do weird and crazy things. But it seems that this was an on-going thing. She didn't have just one incident of molesting this boy! I really doubt that in a spree of mania she gave in to animal lust and had to have him!

People already misunderstand our disorder, and it is disgusting that she is giving us all a bad name by even talking about her BP. What an advocate. NAMI should put her on posters.

I've read statistics that people with MI, including the BP, are at least 4x more likely to be victims of violence rather than criminals. We aren't portrayed as people who get violated and betrayed and taken advantage of, we're portrayed as child molesters and airline safety threats! Who knows what else? Murders? Bird molesters? But I HAD to have that emu!

Along with China, give me my (older!) men any day. No 14-yr-olds here.

[crazynotstupid]

I totally understand that our BP makes us do weird and crazy things. But it seems that this was an on-going thing. She didn't have just one incident of molesting this boy! I really doubt that in a spree of mania she gave in to animal lust and had to have him!

Um, y'know, manic acts are not necessarily (or even that often) one-offs.  God knows, while in manic states, I wouldn't commit, say, ONE crime, but several or many.  I attribute these acts at least partially to mania because, in a more "normal" state, i find what I did stupid and even abhorrent.

Certainly, I can relate to the whole doing stupid, illegal shit, repeatedly, due to mania.  While I neither condone her acts, nor believe that bp should lead to exonerration or forgiveness, if she IS truly bp, then therein lies some explanation.

While what happened here is a horrid and stupid act, there are many of us bp's who ought to be able to relate.  (shit, i have a whole thread entitled "unrepentant felon"--it's a miracle I'm not in prison myself)

And, while I can agree that this sort of thing leads to a negative stereotype of bp, one should be able to admit that, in a "blood leads" type of news industry, this IS the face of bp.  Those of us who are medicated, and handling/confronting the disease, simply ain't worth column inches.

[GroovyGwen]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?  I was so massively pissed when I saw this.  And she urged people to read a book on BP.  That's great, but if they did they would most likely find NO EVIDENCE that BP leads to fucking 14 year olds.  AND now she wants to write a book on BP.  'Cause she is the authority.  Last I checked, being BP does not take away peoples ability to tell right from wrong.  As in, fucking 14 year olds is WRONG if you are their 20-something teacher.  Isn't that insanity or something?  BP IS NOT INSANE!

I am so frickin' PISSED off about this I am going to write a letter to Geraldo - where I saw the info - and possibly my local paper and possibly the NY Times.  If anyone would like to draft a letter that we can all send to papers and organizations telling them how FALSE and ATROCIOUS this is then that would be great.  I'm not awesome with words, but I shall attempt. 

[Sam]

There are lots of others who share your indignance in the bipolar forum on a thread about this...it's sort of a toss up as to where to put this, huh?

Sam

Edited to add: I know right from wrong when I am manic. I just don't care. I think many of us have made mistakes when manic; I know I have. I think it is wrong for her bipolar peers to judge her so harshly. Just because you think it is vile behavior doesn't make her any more ill or any less bipolar. I don't mean to be on my soapbox about this, and this isn't aimed at you but everyone who is judging her in general. I just find it hypocritical. I have had lapses in judgment. I am not sure we should rank them in order of least to most heinous.

Also, as far as I can tell, there is no one else who shares my view, and I know what everyone elses' are. Just my opinion and I am sorry if I offend anyone.

[Velvet Elvis]

I agree.  I'm more annoyed at her sentencing than at anything she said herself.

[Sam]

Absolutely. Now THAT is a travesty.

Sam

[Kablume]

After the Mary Kay Laturno case, we have had a couple of instances here in Michigan. This new case is the first BP I have heard of. Totally repulses me. I was in my 30's when a young 22 yr old GI asked me to dance. I couldn't even do that. My kids always made me promise I wouldn't date anyone younger than they are.

Watch, it will become the new defense catch-all. It's not like we haven't had our share of problems getting recognized but couldn't it be positive?

[Breeze]

Also, as far as I can tell, there is no one else who shares my view, and I know what everyone elses' are. Just my opinion and I am sorry if I offend anyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey! I thought I was the only one who thought this. There are, at last count, several different types of bipolar. Just because none of the "Angry" would do this does not mean she isn't bp. And it doesn't mean that her disorder was a partial cause for her lapse in judgment.

We only hear what the media is throwing out there anyway. So I say: Judge not, lest ye be judged. Really. Some people are so quick to jump on others just because they wouldn't do something like this.

And getting your news from Geraldo? Uh.....

Breeze

Edit to add: I am listening to the news. The mother of the victim asked that he not testity due to panic attacks ( I guess this needs to go to the anxiety board now) and that is why they dismissed the case. No victim? No case.  In one county. In another county ( this was a two county ordeal) she received 7 months ( I think) of house arrest and 3 years probation.

SHE is the moron that said it was due to her bipolar disorder. She is obvioulsy making a bad name for BP's and I see that now. But I haven't seen these facts on the board - just that she got off because she was bipolar. That is not true.

[revlow]

This new case is the first BP I have heard of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, Mary Kay Letourneau is BP -- a fact I wish had been dealt with more honestly in the media. Not to exonerate her, in any way. Just that more could have been learned from that situation.

Here are links to some stories Letourneau's BP: http://bipolar.about.com/od/marykayletourneau/

And if you ever want to read the bizarre Greek tragedy that was her childhood, here are a couple of links:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/...kay_letourneau/ -- as it says at the bottom of this 1st page, she "was in some ways repeating a sordid chapter in her family history." It's a page turner.

And speaking of a large part of that sordid history, this is about her father John Schmitz: http://www.goodbyemag.com/jan01/schmitz.html. I lived in So. California during his crazy reign as a congressman, et al. He was nuts. His own sordid scandal that came to the surface was, to put it mildly, a doozy. I mean, about as sad and ugly as they come.

So much of Letourneau's background and BP was glossed over in the press. Again, not that it excuses any of her behavior. She made some egregious choices, including to stop taking her medication after she was dx'd. (A cautionary tale for all of us?)

With this current case, and most of the others in which a woman is the perpetrator, I am outraged at the double standard re: sentencing.

[Lady_Valkyrie]

This whole issue also reminds me of that old Van Halen song "Hot For Teacher" that came out back in the early 80's. The Video for that song featured a hot young blonde teacher that resembles the teacher that we are talking about here.

Little Boys being infactuated with their teacher is as old as time. The same is true for little girls being infactuated with their male teachers. I can think of a couple of teachers I was infactuated with when I was in middle school and in high school.  It's no different that a young boy or young girl being infactuated with some rock star, movie star, model, etc. It's Nature! Young people are beginning to learn and understand their own sexuality and they are just one huge hormone!  However, as an adult, those adults should not take advantage of those very natural urges. If they do they should pay the price with their freedom.

So many times I have been told that I should never use my mental illnesses as an excuse for bad behavior. I totally agree with this concept. However, some people thought I was using it as an excuse when I would try to explain  that these mental illnesses are but one reason why I act and react the way I do but I am in therapy and take medicine to better myself. Some people don't want to hear that. All they want is to throw stones and want to hear you apologize for your sins profusely. Maybe this teacher was trying to explain to the public to learn what Bipolar is and it is in fact a contributing factor as to why she has acted or has reacted as she has. I don't know, I can't read the woman's mind. She very well could be a very healthy and very sane woman who is merely using the age old "insanity" plea as a means to get a lessor sentence if she was tried and convicted.

When it comes to crimes such as this teacher has commited, there should be no question. If she's guilty then she should serve time. Now what she does while serving that time is the key. If she truely has a mental illness (no matter what that mental illnesses name is) that is a contributing factor as to why she did what she did then she should be willing to get the help she needs during her time being served. But  no matter if she has a mental illness or not, she should serve time for her crime.

In conclusion, I truely do think that Bipolar is and has been for a while now the "cool thing" to be. You don't know how many young adults and teens who will self diagnose themselves and label themselves as "Bipolar" when in reality they are just hormonal teens going through puberty.

[Lisa_K]

I just heard on the news tonight...that the teacher claimed she enjoyed knowing she was doing wrong...that that was part of the excitement...part of the BP.

This pisses me off...

For one thing...having BP is not a stance for a child sex assault defense, in my opinion...and saying your out of your mind insane...therefore not guilty by reason of insanity...(which means you don't know right from wrong) then saying you got off on knowing you were doing wrong????HUH???? I don't know...just seriously annoying, stupid, and a miscarriage of justice.

[Seldarin]

Edit to add: I am listening to the news. The mother of the victim asked that he not testity due to panic attacks ( I guess this needs to go to the anxiety board now) and that is why they dismissed the case. No victim? No case.

[revlow]

Just FYI, someone did start another thread on this topic at News of the World, here: http://www.crazyboards.org/index.php?showtopic=9871

I made a post there today. Rather than cut and paste, here's the link if you're interested: http://www.crazyboards.org/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=135356

[Iona_Viona]

the thing is this isnt a case of the boy being infactuated as this wasnt a fantasy it was a reality. and even if the kid did have the "infactuation" for her this women should of known better then to sleep with a kid.

And quite frankly as a teacher with bipolar i have NO sympathy for her, she knew she was capable of  molesting this little boy, which she obviously did cause she molested him more then once, then she should of removed herself from the situation. she needs to take some responsibility for her actions, oh but hang on that means pretty people do bad things.

She makes me sick, and so does the whole arguement that this kind of behaviour can be excused because she was bipolar. If you were molested would you want them to be treated differentlybecause they had a mental illness, no u would want them to be held accountable. in my opinion all the accouncement that she has a mental illness should do is determine what treatment programs she has while her ass sits in prision for the next few years. 

[firedancer]

i have nothing to add as it has already been said, just my disgust.

"too pretty for prision" - sorry this did make me lol

_jen

[GroovyGwen]

I DON'T get my news from Geraldo, I just happened to be flipping through channels and saw this.

[Velvet Elvis]

Yeah.  It sounds like there is more going on here than bp.

While I'm not bp, at least not any kind currently on the books, the way I understand it is that mania can make you more impulsive and also feel invulnerable.  This means that due to mania she had difficulty resisting the urge to fuck her 14 year old student.  She also could have felt unstoppable, like she could get away with anything, etc because of the bp.  The bp does not, however, explain the fact that she had the urge to have sex with her 14 year old student in the first place. That combined with the statement about enjoying doing wrong makes it sound to me like she has more scews loose than just bp.

[Sam]

the thing is this isnt a case of the boy being infactuated as this wasnt a fantasy it was a reality. and even if the kid did have the "infactuation" for her this women should of known better then to sleep with a kid.

And quite frankly as a teacher with bipolar i have NO sympathy for her, she knew she was capable of

[crazynotstupid]

There are people on this board who have done things while manic that many of you would deem heinous. It's an illness. We screw up. We screw up ROYALLY. And hopefully we take meds and get better. I hope the same thing happens to her.

Indeed.  I've done things...well, anybody who's read my shit knows.  While what she did may be considered heinous, i, too, will keep my stones in my hand for now.

[Lady_Valkyrie]

Let's get one thing clear. I hear some people throwing around the word "molest." What exactly does this word mean? In the Merriam-Webster dictionary it says:

Main Entry: mo

[null0trooper]

The teacher was most certainly an adult. The student was 14 at the time of the sexual encounters. Now I am not familar with Florida's statutory rape laws... anyone know the age of consent in that state?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the offender is 24+ and the child is 16 or less, consent is not a defense against "lewd or lascivious

conduct". Consent is a defense against "sexual battery", depending on age . (ref)

Look people I am trying to look at this from all possibilities here. Yes, the teacher was wrong. She has sex 5 times with a minor and that is illegal and she should pay the consequences of her actions. However, I also think that if this young boy had anything to do with possible helping in the seducing, well, he needs some help as well. Some much needed psychiatric help... and a good swift kick in the ass from his mother.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On a local call-in radio segment, a teacher stated that she was hit on more by high school boys than she

was by men more her own age (recently post-college), and that some were pretty good at it. We've all

come across boys or girls who could pass physically for someone significantly older.  So, with 20-20

hindsight, she clearly shouldn't have been teaching an age group where mutual hormones and her MI

could lead to such a foolish mix.

[Judy Doom]

you can get an erection and still be molested.  he was taken advantage of.  14 is too young to have sex and 24 is old enough to know better, manic or not.

[Velvet Elvis]

There are two threads on this topic on two different boards.  I'm merging the other one into this one because this one is longer.

[Velvet Elvis]

and now I remember why I don't splice threads.  It sorta made a casserole of it.  Sorry.

[GroovyGwen]

YAY!  Post casserole!  Can we crush up potato chips on top then cover with cheese and bake at 350 until nice and bubbly????

[null0trooper]

you can get an erection and still be molested.  he was taken advantage of.  14 is too young to have sex and 24 is old enough to know better, manic or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There have been far too many 14-y.o. mothers through the ages for me to believe that 14 is too young

to have sex. That's old enough to marry (with parental consent) in some jurisdictions!

As to "knowing better"... age doesn't equal knowledge OR wisdom OR the capacity to act on the same.

(The flip side is - this is Florida. I think even Jimmy Buffett has an old  song about how

"15 will get you 20" - so this is into "way stupid, even for me" territory )

[Sam]

Where I work, not only do we see 14 year-olds that are having sex, we see 14 year-olds who are pregnant. Hell, a lot of them are still only 14 when they give birth.

My daughter and I have talked a lot about sex and birth control etc., but I talk to some of these mothers and they did that, too. Those hormones supercede everything sometimes.

Sam

[ncc1701]

Heya,

Ugh.

BP *can* equal being an idiot.

We've all been idots at some point, some more than others.

But.

1.  Besides what *she* says, is she BP?  Treated?  What?

2.  So?  Being epileptic doesn't mean you can't *also* be bipolar.  Being bipolar doesn't mean you can't *also* be a creepy pedophile.  You *can* be both BP and a creep.

Just saying.

--ncc--