Viibryd or Effexor to replace Bupropion?

[water]

Hi everyone...It's been awhile but I'm still here!

I have been depressed/anxious/low energy for months. I am in therapy but...he is very low key. My friends call him a reality therapist.  I am currently looking for a cognitive behavior therapist.

My mdoc today suggested I switch out my aplenzin (same as Wellbutrin) for Viibryd or Effexor.

The ONLY AD I have every taken is bupropion and lexapro. Last year I went off both (yeah, I know, bad idea) but went back on Aplenzin only in February. I am taking the lowest dose right now. The mdoc thinks it may be affecting my anxiety, not in a good way.

Background: I quit smoking pot after YEARS and YEARS.  My anxiety increased and my sleep worsened. I wake up all night long. My marriage ended around 3 years ago, right after both my parents died within 6 months of each other so I am dealing with major life changes.

I have part time work, a lovely home, friends, amazing kitties but...I have very low energy, and really have to kick myself to get out of bed in the morning. I am not painting at all since I quit pot. My depression is very different than it was during my marriage and during my pot smoking days. It doesn't come on at night. It is thru out the day and hits me sometimes in the morning. I have a terrible time comparing my self to others, feeling lacking in ALL ways which is ridiculous. Almost as if I feel purposeless.  If I am doing something, distracted, I am usually fine. It is all those moments alone that hurt. Waking up alone. Waking up in the middle of the night, when my demons come to play with me. But they are more anxiety flavored than depression flavored, if that makes sense. 

I am nervous about changing my meds but also excited. I don't think the meds will cure all, I joined a gym to exercise more, trying to cut out carbs, but if bupropion is adding to my anxiety I want it gone, gone gone. 

Any thoughts greatly appreciated. :-}

[Gearhead]

I’ve taken Lexapro, and Viibryd, and Effexor, and am now on Wellbutrin. 

Effexor was a disaster. It sent me into a crazy manic episode. This was early in my med days, and I wasn’t on a mood stabilizer at the time. And I think the dose may have been too high.

After taking it for maybe two years, I had to go off Lexapro in 2016 because I was having a horrible manic episode. (Side note: Discontinuing the Lexapro made no difference at all in the course of the mania. It wasn’t drug-induced. It was...organic.) I remember it working reasonably well. I think I even got glimmerings of my sex drive back. 

I was on Viibryd in 2018, and it seemed ok at first, but ultimately I concluded that it was upsetting my stomach too much. I don’t remember it making my anxiety worse, nor do I remember it making it better. 

I’ve now been on Wellbutrin for about six months, and I like it a lot. No sexual side effects. No weight gain, possibly even a little loss. I do think it made my anxiety worse for a while, but that’s kind of hard to say, because summer in general and July in particular are always hateful for me. Lord, how I hate the summer. How I love winter. Pardon the digression. 

Naturally your mileage may vary. I don’t remember your diagnosis. And I think that it takes a long time for your chemistry to adjust if you quit smoking pot after having done it for a very long time.

[water]

1 hour ago, Gearhead said:

I don’t remember your diagnosis. And I think that it takes a long time for your chemistry to adjust if you quit smoking pot after having done it for a very long time.

Yes! I think so too. I have never taken these meds without also getting stoned.  When I quit I listened to Never Enough: The Neuroscience and Experience of Addiction by Judith Guisel. It was tremendously helpful. Sometimes I find myself going down the rabbit hole of, what if, what if I hadn't smoked all these years, would my life have been different, better. But the fact is, I DID smoke, my life was what it was and that's that. I have been blessed in so many ways, ruminating over what could have been is a waste of my time and my psychic energy.

Quitting lexapro was so hard, I had awful brain zaps. I never want to take it again. 

Wellbutrin is wonderful which is why I am hesitant to stop. But, I am not sure it it helping me anymore.

My diagnosis is major depression disorder, with generalized anxiety on top. But I have always been a functional depressive. Often feel better in the morning. Now, it is so different. Everything in my life feels...off. But everything has changed so much.

Just watched the movie Find Me. It is on Amazon Prime. I think I need to get my mojo back somehow. Find myself again. I am in a new stage, a new place and it doesn't have to be bad. Just...different. 

Thank you Gear. I really appreciate your comments. I do understand about the summer. Winter is coming....

[Will]

water, can't remember when  we last posted together, but hey, glad you're still here

in fact, I am confused about when I last used this web forum

would have thought 2014 but I see 2015

not sure why I never friended you

maybe felt too close or something

rectified

[Gearhead]

Found this for you, Water:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110606131705.htm

[notloki]

There is no substitute for bupoprian, it is a unique drug and there are not equivalents on the market.

[mikl_pls]

Bupropion (Wellbutrin/Aplenzin) tends to ramp up people's anxiety more often than not. Some people's brain chemistry is such that it can actually lower anxiety, though. I remember when I reached 300 mg and my gdoc added Adderall 20 mg, my anxiety completely evaporated. I was confused, but he explained that it was because I have ADHD, and the restoring of dopamine and norepinephrine (instead of just serotonin) levels allowed my brain to operate at a higher level of functioning such that my ADHD symptoms weren't bothering my anymore, thereby alleviating my secondary anxiety from the results of ADHD. I really hope that made sense, because it barely made sense as I was typing it... XD

[water]

3 hours ago, mikl_pls said:

 I really hope that made sense, because it barely made sense as I was typing it... XD

hahaha. yes, it did make sense. Unfortunately, or fortunately, don't have ADHD. Thank you for the information!!

4 hours ago, notloki said:

There is no substitute for bupoprian, it is a unique drug and there are not equivalents on the market.

Yeah, I'm thinking of sticking with it if only because I already have stomach issues and that seems to be the real problem with Viibryd.
 

 

10 hours ago, Gearhead said:

Found this for you, Water:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110606131705.htm

Thank you!! My cannabinoid receptors are definitely screwed up, but according to Guisel and this study:

"the damage is reversible with abstinence." Yes!!

The only drug she wrote about that damaged the brain permanently was MDMA/ecstasy. 

12 hours ago, Will said:

water, can't remember when  we last posted together, but hey, glad you're still here

 

Thank you Will!! Nice to 'see' you too. :-}

[argh]

.

Edited September 20, 2020 by argh

[Will]

Not on topic but I seem to recall I need to wish Gearhead a happy Rosh Hashanah tomorrow.?  Not that I know what that is exactly

Seem to recall that from years back in other threads.

Memory of prior activity on the forum is hazy 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Will

[Gearhead]

@Will, that’s right. Thank you so much for remembering. I’m very touched.

[water]

@Will @Gearhead Yes!! Happy New Year!  Was FILLED with anxiety and doubt about not going home for the holiday and instead staying in town, invited to a new friends for dinner. I was so afraid I would feel left out, alone, regretful. All day I was filled with that mucked up stuff, but just got home from the actual dinner and it was GREAT!!  I need to trust my instincts, not listen to the shoulda woulda coulda voice which is so damn loud sometimes I cannot hear my own wishes.

@argh funny you mention buspar. That was the very first med I ever took and it opened my world to the gift of psychopharmacology. Unfortunately it made me very very dizzy. :-{ . Glad your mixture is working for you! 

 

[Will]

11 hours ago, water said:

@Will @Gearhead Yes!! Happy New Year!  Was FILLED with anxiety and doubt about not going home for the holiday and instead staying in town, invited to a new friends for dinner. I was so afraid I would feel left out, alone, regretful. All day I was filled with that mucked up stuff, but just got home from the actual dinner and it was GREAT!!  I need to trust my instincts, not listen to the shoulda woulda coulda voice which is so damn loud sometimes I cannot hear my own wishes.

@argh funny you mention buspar. That was the very first med I ever took and it opened my world to the gift of psychopharmacology. Unfortunately it made me very very dizzy. :-{ . Glad your mixture is working for you! 

 

 

11 hours ago, water said:

 

 

 

[Will]

So you have good instincts. water, and I would agree w/ the part in bold.  Can't remember when your instinct, which has a strong bent for humor, failed you.

But there is probably something beyond instinct?  Searching for a word but perhaps "knowing" fits.

The intersection of instinct and wisdom maybe.  But then you would need an equation for wisdom?  Such as time.  And then time is bent.  I think I'm old enough to have my own wisdom tree.  "Mistake will be made" is inappropriate.  My usual bullshit, over analysis, but I haven't changed much 

Gearhead, re my memory and you, I can remember certain exchanges;  such as when you made a comment about the fate of the planet, and then I responded that the apes are in charge of that, to which you responded "touche"  which was gracious.  My problem is that I can't recall when such exchanges occurred.  I have to be careful with you because you are "sharp" for lack of a better word.  Sharp sounds pejorative, maybe, but I mean it in the best sense.  So, when did that occur?  I think it was 2012 or 2014.  And now I'm stuck in time again

[Will]

And for the others in this thread I know nothing re these drugs being discussed.  I like my remarks being stricken out as I type.  Humorously appropriate

[Will]

And not to be misconstrued but obviously I meant that the human species has gotten us into this greenhouse mess w/ the technological industrial evolution.

And now we're dependent on the same instincts to get us out of it.

But the real tragedy is that opinions are guided by politics and/or money.

I seem to get preach-ier the older I get.

Quote

 

 

[Gearhead]

@Will Huh. I don’t remember that. But I’m over 9,000 posts in at this point. 

I’m glad I’m good-sharp and not keep-your-fingers-inside-the-bus-at-all-times sharp.

[Will]

yeah, I check the board randomly and I know you have been like the super mod for awhile

the sharp remark maybe I will explain later, but it's a good thing, it's a family joke as people always called my grandfather sharp and indeed he was

and I need to stop posting OR announce that I am in the middle of an episode

in the past I have randomly started posting and gotten myself in all kinds of trouble alienating people by coming off the wall

but I respect you very much

out

 

[Gearhead]

@Will My search mojo is strong. I found it. 

 

[Will]

Good.  At least something works.  Certain things stick with me and that exchange did.  I forget what we were discussing but things went off on a tangent and we were discussing the fate of the planet and that exchange occurred.

I am so frustrated with this manic episode.  All my passwords and accounts are screwed up.

Going thru divorce and things are the shit, as in not the good kind. 

It saddens me in a way to come on the board and see so many old friends missing.  For me, this board documents a huge part of my life beginning 2011 and I do like to look back.  Even the admonitions from staff in the past have meaning.  I can even remember my state of mind.  For example, in 2014 I sought to redeem myself from how I exited in 2012 and I did that but I came back in a vengeance mode seeking to settle some old hurts inflicted by certain of the staff, so I was not in a good place.

But thanks for your interest in finding the thread.  

[Will]

And (sorry water) turning this thread into my own selfish rant:

I was really, really pissed after all the admonishments I got from some staff in 2012 and I wanted to go off on some people, and I'm glad the board was here for me to vent that.

And I still think my anger was justified but I understand that I probably crossed some personal boundaries in a cyberspace environment which can be unsafe if not carefully monitored.  And so I can chase my own tail on that issue.  But at least I felt that my anger was righteous and nobody called me down because I think I was able to keep some sense of keeping it between the lines, so I'm grateful for the tolerance of the mods on that

OK, now I'm really out of this thread

thank you water

[water]

Don't be sorry @Will

I enjoy digressions. Distraction is key to helping depression. :-}

[Will]

Not depressed.  Quite the opposite.  Most of the time.

Seems like I used to be able to single space? Can't figure out how to do that now.  No nuance to that.  

11,657 posts, water?  I must have been gone too long 

[Will]

4 hours ago, water said:

Don't be sorry @Will

I enjoy digressions. Distraction is key to helping depression. :-}

And then yeah, water, without being oblique about it I can (I think) remember giving tryp about the same advice 7 years ago (I would have to look that up for the exact date) and then she posted something positive in response that she hadn't hurt herself or something and then it was fine until I derailed it by DM'ing her with something soppy. 

But I can remember this stuff because I am usually in manic space when I post on the board, and I can be entirely honest and innocent but that doesn't always work for various reasons, especially in cyberspace.  But, damn if the rules weren't applied more harshly to me than others.  And, it may have been that the real danger was to myself for being overly emotional

And you digress me quite often, water, which is probably not the right thing to say and skirts the rules of propriety, so oh well.

(and now I see that my sentences were too short to single space)  

[water]

On 10/3/2019 at 5:04 PM, Will said:

Not depressed.  Quite the opposite.  Most of the time.

I meant MY depression. :-}

[Will]

Oh, well, water we can work on that thru humor (hopefully), one of your strengths 

[notloki]

Bupropion is a unique antidepressant that no other AD has, it is novel.