Hypersomnia & Sleep Trackers?

[Blahblah]

I've this issue my entire life, but seems it's getting worse (I do plan to go to my dr). I sleep 10+ hours per night and I always feel groggy, tired and awful.  I just bought a fitness/sleep tracker (only $29), wondering how accurate these are? Even if I get up early, exercise, etc I'm groggy and dazed. Extremely doubtful it's sleep apnea or vitamin deficiency.

I read that 7-8 hours of sleep is ideal, each sleep cycle is 90 minutes. I am debating on trying to set alarm 90 minutes before you need to get up, so you're not awakened in the middle of a cycle (does this really work?)

I do not want to take more meds/stimulants for this. @mikl_pls I think you've had this issue also?

[mikl_pls]

29 minutes ago, Blahblah said:

I do not want to take more meds/stimulants for this. @mikl_pls I think you've had this issue also?

Yes, prior to being put on dextroamphetamine 60 mg/day, I had this problem quite severely. I have idiopathic hypersomnia with long sleep time. I do snore lightly, but I don't have sleep apnea. I have had two sleep tests done, and the second one showed seizure activity in my sleep, which my sleep doc said would disrupt my sleep cycles, leaving me feeling tired the next day and so forth. My neurologist has yet to capture an event on EEG, but then again he never followed up with a 24 hour waking/sleeping EEG like he was supposed to. Oh well.

Anyway, what kind of sleep/fitness tracker did you get? From what I know about these trackers, they're not entirely accurate. The only way to really tell what stage of sleep you're in is to be hooked up to an EEG. These trackers do help somewhat to give an idea of how much/what quality sleep you're getting. I was a long-time Fitbit fan but recently got a Garmin Vívosmart 4 which also takes your pulse oximetry while you sleep (optional, you have to turn it on and it eats battery like crazy). But that part at least helps rule out a potential sleep disorder like sleep apnea.

I forget, have you had a sleep study before? That might be something you may want to consider discussing with your doctor. You may have narcolepsy, idiopathic hypersomnia, or some other type of sleep disorder. I know you don't want to take additional meds, but there are two meds, modafinil (Provigil) and armodafinil (Nuvigil) that may be of particular benefit to you. They're not necessarily stimulants per se, but rather "eugeroics" or "wakefulness promoters."

[Wonderful.Cheese]

1 hour ago, Blahblah said:

I've this issue my entire life, but seems it's getting worse (I do plan to go to my dr). I sleep 10+ hours per night and I always feel groggy, tired and awful.  I just bought a fitness/sleep tracker (only $29), wondering how accurate these are? Even if I get up early, exercise, etc I'm groggy and dazed. Extremely doubtful it's sleep apnea or vitamin deficiency.

I read that 7-8 hours of sleep is ideal, each sleep cycle is 90 minutes. I am debating on trying to set alarm 90 minutes before you need to get up, so you're not awakened in the middle of a cycle (does this really work?)

I do not want to take more meds/stimulants for this. @mikl_pls I think you've had this issue also?

I had this issue before nuvigil. I don’t believe that your $29 fitness tracker will be super accurate, unfortunately. I agree with Mike about getting a proper sleep study done. Possibly a nighttime and daytime one if your dr recommends it.

I have had 3 sleep studies. 2 nighttime ones and 1 daytime one. I was sleeping 12 hours a night and sometimes napping too during the day. It was awful. During the sleep study they found me to have very very mild sleep apnea. So I use a CPAP (but it doesn’t help, so I was put on nuvigil which does help immensely). Nowadays my sleep specialist dr thinks I no longer have sleep apnea because I’ve lost a lot of weight. But she says skinny people do and can have sleep apnea. So food for thought. But she does think I have some other sleep disorder like narcolepsy or hypersomnia. She just wasn’t sure because it was borderline between the two.

So, during the daytime sleep study, they give you I think 15 minutes (don’t quote me on that) to fall asleep. Then if you do fall asleep within that time it has to do with how quickly you do and if you hit REM stage I believe my dr said? I fell asleep all 5 nap times rather quickly. It was super annoying and tiring though because you’d fall asleep and then they’d come in and wake you up and you’d be tired still and then rinse and repeat. 

If you have any questions about nuvigil or provigil or sleep studies, let me know. I can dig out my old papers about prepping for the studies if you’d like. I prefer nuvigil because it lasts longer. But some take provigil 2X a day. Anyway, good luck! Keep us posted!

[argh]

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Edited September 20, 2020 by argh

[Blahblah]

Thanks all. i don't know if my GP will recommend a sleep study...and won't I need to taper off meds to do it properly? No coffee? Anyhow, I don't have time just yet, there's a lot of approvals/insurance stuff and multiple appointments to set up for that.

I'll receive my tracker today, so maybe I'll give that a try first. I know part of it is my schedule (too much downtime at home). very tiny studio room and my desk is literally right by my bed...plus its darker out...plus I have not been good with regular exercise...I think there are a lot of outside factors probably causing it 😞

[notloki]

No you do not have to stop your meds,

 

[mikl_pls]

It depends. Both my sleep docs told me to go off my stimulant before my sleep study. They also don't allow certain sleep meds as they may alter your sleep architecture (like benzos, I believe, specifically). Whether you have to go off certain meds and when you do it depends on your doctor and what s/he's testing for.

[Blahblah]

On 9/29/2019 at 11:49 AM, mikl_pls said:

Anyway, what kind of sleep/fitness tracker did you get? From what I know about these trackers, they're not entirely accurate. The only way to really tell what stage of sleep you're in is to be hooked up to an EEG. These trackers do help somewhat to give an idea of how much/what quality sleep you're getting. I was a long-time Fitbit fan but recently got a Garmin Vívosmart 4 which also takes your pulse oximetry while you sleep (optional, you have to turn it on and it eats battery like crazy).

@mikl_pls I got the Let'sFit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RS3Q9GS/ref=twister_B07SSSMJPK?_encoding=UTF8&th=1  (Lots of great reviews on Amazon, but maybe I should've checked on other tech review sites)

Tried the sleep tracker. Doesn't seem to track REM, but I got nearly 3 hours Deep Sleep and close to 7 hours Light Sleep. I did wake up once during night after a dream, and it didn't register that. And I definitely had more than 5 minutes awake time (more like 20-25). Are there other trackers (around $30) that are good?

What I find strange, is that so much of my Deep Sleep is concentrated into chunks (most early, between 12am-2am, then 6am-8am) versus more equally throughout... Anyway, curious to see if any patterns.. I read that too little REM sleep can leave you feeling groggy, less able to focus, and might lead to memory problems.” That’s why it’s important to get enough rest after learning something new or before taking an exam. Many medications can also block REM. “Most antidepressants can cut REM sleep by half,”  (!!)

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Blahblah

[Blahblah]

I can't seem to find anything that says too much Deep Sleep causes fatigue... But there are some interesting things about getting too little REM sleep, causing emotional dysfunction, cognitive decline or even mental depression:

https://sleep.mysplus.com/library/category3/REM_Sleep_and_Our_Dreaming_Lives.html

I'm particularly worried about early Alzheimer's, as it runs in my family....

A time for mental recharge

REM sleep is a phase that’s closely linked with mental recharge. During its time in REM throughout the night, your brain refreshes and restores itself. This is one reason why REM sleep is so important, and why a healthy sleep routine with sufficient amounts of REM sleep is essential to feeling mentally and emotionally well, and to performing at your best during your waking life.

REM sleep is believed to play an important role in learning, memory, and emotion. It is often thought of as the sleep phase during which the brain restores itself. The areas of the brain that are most active during REM sleep are those related to thinking, learning, and decision-making, as well as to emotional regulation. REM sleep is linked to the brain’s ability to make new associations, aiding in the acquisition of new information, problem solving, and creativity. Research indicates REM may play an important role in some forms of memory consolidation, the process by which brain converts newly acquired information into longer-term memory. Evidence also suggests that during REM sleep the brain is at work processing emotions, helping to regulate mood.

Maybe I'm consistently waking up at the wrong time: like when I'm in Deep Sleep stage??

Edited October 1, 2019 by Blahblah

[mikl_pls]

10 hours ago, Blahblah said:

I got the Let'sFit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RS3Q9GS/ref=twister_B07SSSMJPK?_encoding=UTF8&th=1  (Lots of great reviews on Amazon, but maybe I should've checked on other tech review sites)

Looks pretty interesting, a lot like a Fitbit.

10 hours ago, Blahblah said:

Tried the sleep tracker. Doesn't seem to track REM, but I got nearly 3 hours Deep Sleep and close to 7 hours Light Sleep. I did wake up once during night after a dream, and it didn't register that. And I definitely had more than 5 minutes awake time (more like 20-25). Are there other trackers (around $30) that are good?

Unfortunately I don't know of any around that price. Misfit makes a fitness tracker for $79.99 (Misfit Ray), and Fitbit makes one for $99.95 (Inspire HR). Probably the best activity/fitness tracker would be the Garmin Vívosmart 4, which is the one I have. I got it for $109.99 at Best Buy, but I think that was on sale and it's normally $129.99. I think I said this already, but I used Fitbit for years but I started experiencing issues with the tracker's screen going blank and having to hard reset it, then it just died, and I didn't feel like calling customer service and convincing them that I've done everything to attempt to revive it just to get a new one that probably also will eventually do the same thing (probably should though... 😕 even though I'm not going to use it anymore). The Garmin seems to track sleep a lot more accurately, especially with the pulse oximetry turned on. As for inexpensive trackers, I don't know of any that are of any quality. Hopefully someone else can jump in with some suggestions.

10 hours ago, Blahblah said:

What I find strange, is that so much of my Deep Sleep is concentrated into chunks (most early, between 12am-2am, then 6am-8am) versus more equally throughout... Anyway, curious to see if any patterns.. I read that too little REM sleep can leave you feeling groggy, less able to focus, and might lead to memory problems.” That’s why it’s important to get enough rest after learning something new or before taking an exam. Many medications can also block REM. “Most antidepressants can cut REM sleep by half,”  (!!)

Yes, almost all antidepressants decrease REM sleep except trimipramine (Surmontil), which increases REM sleep. I'll see if I can post a screen cap of my sleep analysis. I know that I don't get even an hour of REM sleep per night... lol. Might explain my memory problems.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by mikl_pls