Chinese Medicine

[Sephiroth999]

I am wondering if this is particular subject would be considered "alternative medicine" or "anti med" (I am nether of those), If I wish to speak of these kinds of things freely which are the best besides "What the Hell Is That"?

[argh]

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Edited September 16, 2020 by argh

[Sephiroth999]

3 hours ago, argh said:

Traditional Chinese medicine? Like ginseng and rhino horn? Alt medicine. Medications mfg in China? Medicine.

Not so much TCM but CCM "Classical Chinese Medicine", our system is different and an attempt to rectify some of the mistakes that we believe were woven into the more popularly accepted "Traditional Chinese Medicine" . Ginseng yes, but I avoid using animal parts. My medicines are usually an extract of whatev. combination of plant extracts which are scientifically proven to do this and that. Then there is also much focus on Acupuncture and Acupressure.

For example "rub X point on the body to relieve mania and psychosis". I'm not trying to dispense medical information, but if I come across a certain situation where my Chinese stuff worked where more widely accepted things didd'nt, I would just like to be free to share my experience with it.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Sephiroth999

[Blahblah]

3 hours ago, Sephiroth999 said:

Not so much TCM but CCM "Classical Chinese Medicine", our system is different and an attempt to rectify some of the mistakes that we believe were woven into the more popularly accepted "Traditional Chinese Medicine" . Ginseng yes, but I avoid using animal parts. My medicines are usually an extract of whatev. combination of plant extracts which are scientifically proven to do this and that. Then there is also much focus on Acupuncture and Acupressure.

For example "rub X point on the body to relieve mania and psychosis". I'm not trying to dispense medical information, but if I come across a certain situation where my Chinese stuff worked where more widely accepted things didd'nt, I would just like to be free to share my experience with it.

I like to think of TCM as "integrative" or "holistic" I know it has a bad rap, as not scientifically "proven" or evidence based (most of it) but I personally want to try it, and learn more about it, as a way of supporting my wellness/body/mind. Just because people are curious or wanting to give it a try, doesn't mean that they are "anti-med" (I would never promote using Chinese Medicine instead of taking meds) Acupuncture has helped me a lot in the past.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Blahblah

[DogMan]

i like the term "complimentary medicine"

 

it isn't a replacement, but various massage techniques, herbs etc can add an extra X% buffer to stability etc. Which is good

 

it sits along side prescribed by pdoc meds

[Cerberus]

Sephiroth999 -

Crazyboards as a peer support forum advocates Western medicine, with its foundation in the scientific method, as the touchstone for our philosophy. We encourage our members to work with mental health care professionals and care teams within this context. To the extent that such professionals also integrate CCM into their practices, we can probably get behind it unless it is clearly detrimental to the member or just plain loopy. Some things like acupuncture have a grudging recognition as having some effect of some sort, but most of the studies of CCM withing a Western context that I've seen have concluded that more studies are needed to see if it actually does anything.

Which brings us to the dodgy part of  what you're asking. CCM would fall into the category of "alternative medicine" - but in some cases would be highly suspect. We are not automatically adverse to Eastern treatment - 1.43 billion people in China can't have got it completely wrong - but there are aspects of some Chinese medicine that are based in the Doctrine of Signatures or in an inherently unprovable understanding of human spirituality. When someone invents a scanner that can show me the whereabouts of the Shen, Hun, Po, Yi and Zhi residing in my organs, I'll buy it; not until. Herbalism can have its roots (no pun intended) in actual science, as chemical compounds in plants can have measurable impacts on mental health. Where these can be positively documented and confirmed using the scientific method, we're good with that. But if an extract of some plant is advocated for, say, anxiety because imbalance of qi in the liver is thought to induce anxiety (I'm just making this up, I have no idea whether this is thought or not) and the plant is used because its leaf is shaped like a liver, then, no. 

You say that you "avoid" using animal parts, but that doesn't change the fact that the system of medicine that you are wanting to talk about includes, among other things, rhinoceros horn, pangolin scales, bear gall bladders, and tiger penises, all purported to impart medical effects with no evidence - or logical hope of evidence - whatsoever. Take rhino horn, for example. Rhinoceros horn is made of 100% keratin - yes, it's made of fingernails. So all the vigor that Chinese men say they get from powdered rhino horn, they're getting from ingesting the equivalent of powdered fingernails. The only difference between using the rhino horn and using their own fingernails is that they're killing all the rhinoceroces. And all the pangolins, and the bears, and the tigers. So if there's any discussion of the use of animal parts on CB by anyone, for any reason, we're going to quash it. Not having that.

So you see, it's not impossible to talk about CCM here in terms of alternative medicine, as long as you confine the threads to the Miscellaneous Medications board, and as long as you are prepared to be laughed at/scorned by our members who know their shit if you try to foist off something crazy. Expect the Moderators to be monitoring. So, all you other members reading along, even though we allow this as a consideration of alternative therapies, we strongly encourage you to approach it with skepticism, do your own research, and consult your pdoc/tdoc before swallowing any tiger penis or whatnot.

Cerberus
Moderator

Edited February 4, 2020 by Cerberus

[Sephiroth999]

4 hours ago, Cerberus said:

Sephiroth999 -

Crazyboards as a peer support forum advocates Western medicine, with its foundation in the scientific method, as the touchstone for our philosophy. We encourage our members to work with mental health care professionals and care teams within this context. To the extent that such professionals also integrate CCM into their practices, we can probably get behind it unless it is clearly detrimental to the member or just plain loopy. Some things like acupuncture have a grudging recognition as having some effect of some sort, but most of the studies of CCM withing a Western context that I've seen have concluded that more studies are needed to see if it actually does anything.

Which brings us to the dodgy part of  what you're asking. CCM would fall into the category of "alternative medicine" - but in some cases would be highly suspect. We are not automatically adverse to Eastern treatment - 1.43 billion people in China can't have got it completely wrong - but there are aspects of some Chinese medicine that are based in the Doctrine of Signatures or in an inherently unprovable understanding of human spirituality. When someone invents a scanner that can show me the whereabouts of the Shen, Hun, Po, Yi and Zhi residing in my organs, I'll buy it; not until. Herbalism can have its roots (no pun intended) in actual science, as chemical compounds in plants can have measurable impacts on mental health. Where these can be positively documented and confirmed using the scientific method, we're good with that. But if an extract of some plant is advocated for, say, anxiety because imbalance of qi in the liver is thought to induce anxiety (I'm just making this up, I have no idea whether this is thought or not) and the plant is used because its leaf is shaped like a liver, then, no. 

You say that you "avoid" using animal parts, but that doesn't change the fact that the system of medicine that you are wanting to talk about includes, among other things, rhinoceros horn, pangolin scales, bear gall bladders, and tiger penises, all purported to impart medical effects with no evidence - or logical hope of evidence - whatsoever. Take rhino horn, for example. Rhinoceros horn is made of 100% keratin - yes, it's made of fingernails. So all the vigor that Chinese men say they get from powdered rhino horn, they're getting from ingesting the equivalent of powdered fingernails. The only difference between using the rhino horn and using their own fingernails is that they're killing all the rhinoceroces. And all the pangolins, and the bears, and the tigers. So if there's any discussion of the use of animal parts on CB by anyone, for any reason, we're going to quash it. Not having that.

So you see, it's not impossible to talk about CCM here in terms of alternative medicine, as long as you confine the threads to the Miscellaneous Medications board, and as long as you are prepared to be laughed at/scorned by our members who know their shit if you try to foist off something crazy. Expect the Moderators to be monitoring. So, all you other members reading along, even though we allow this as a consideration of alternative therapies, we strongly encourage you to approach it with skepticism, do your own research, and consult your pdoc/tdoc before swallowing any tiger penis or whatnot.

Cerberus
Moderator

Thank you very much ❤️ -Sephiroth999