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Hi folks,

I was diagnosed with OCPD which i dont think i have...I believe I have traits of it but my main issue is more OCD (Intrusive thoughts/Compulsions) One PDoc said that OCD/OCPD go hand in hand yet articles i've read say the complete opposite...Anyways i've had lots of therapy over the years..A good few bouts of CBT and nearly 2 years of Pyschodynamic therapy...I've had group therapy and 1+1 therapy...I find i tend to get quite resentful towards therapists..The problem is Say one therapist says something i disagree with i will then become really resentful towards them and find ways to argue with them or discredit what they say etc etc Problem is then i will think "ALL" therapists out there are the same..I think this falls under black and white thinking? Anyways i find that i can be quite an awkward client when it comes to therapy...Part of my ego thinks and believes that i know much more than the therapist...And like mentioned one small thing said that i dont agree with and i will become highly resentful towards them which results in me not wanting to talk to them or if i do usually just to argue with them....I find even in group therapy i try to take over it...And same again if the therapist says something i dont agree with i'll find ways to be disruptive in the group...Not malicious ways...More ways in which i'll constantly challenge what the therapist says..I think a lot of it boils down to me having to Be right.....I saw a Private PDoc once ..In the UK it cost me 250 pounds for the hour...I clock watched and clock watched and he was about 2 minutes late..It was the first thing i pulled him on when we got in..The same resentful- feeling came over me and i didnt want to talk to him but because i was paying i did..But i felt like i couldnt be open and relaxed in talking as i had this resentment of him been 2 minutes late..I even said that i'll be going over by 2minutes as he was late..He just smiled lol Does anyone else get like this in therapy?? Anyone with a PD diagnosis..I've read that people with PD can be challenging in therapy and i know that i can be..I'm thinking of maybe trying counselling and i dont want this whole resentful thing to get in the way..I'm hard work i wont deny it but like everyone else with mental health issues i just want to get better yet i have so many challenging ways about me..I'm very rigid and set in my ways and its a big barrier to successful therapy..

Edited by GrannyG81
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needing to be right, black and white thinking and being rigid/set in your ways is all textbook OCPD. the ego in thinking you know more than the therapist is also found in OCPD. i'm not saying for sure that your diagnosis is right, but as someone with OCPD, i see a lot of myself in what you've written. it's also typical of OCPD to feel as though different approaches to doing things or different perspectives on an issue are by default worse than what you already do/think.

therapy works best if you can put some trust in what your therapist is telling you, even if it sounds like a bunch of baloney. chances are, if your experience with therapists is that they all end up saying things that piss you off, there's probably a good reason that you're defensive about it. either way, the fact that something they said made you resentful is actually a good thing to bring up to your therapist, because it'll probably help you and the therapist to know why you have such a strong reaction. go deep into why you think you're right or why you think they're wrong, and listen to their response. 

i do get where you're coming from. i've found that OCPD gives me a sort of feeling of omnipotence -- just because i think or feel something must mean it's right or true. i get into arguments with people because they feel differently than me, and after some debate, it usually turns out that i don't have much to back up my argument besides "i think i'm right". learning to stomp down your ego and consider that others may know as much or more than you is difficult to do, but it is essential in learning to identify distorted thinking. a big part of therapy for me is saying "i think/feel this; do you think it's reasonable?" and really listening when the response is "no, that doesn't make sense".

it's also worth noting that there are few issues that have fundamentally right or wrong answers. everything is a spectrum, and everything is subjective. someone feeling differently than you doesn't automatically mean you're right or wrong. you just have different thoughts. it's important to learn to tolerate the idea that different opinions can be right for different reasons. "and" is a powerful word here. i'm right and she's right. i am right in some ways and wrong in others. i am wrong and i'm still knowledgeable. 

my OCPD partially developed because as a child, being smart was one of the only things i was ever praised for. it lead me to think that i know more/better than other people, and that if i'm wrong or don't know, i'm worthless. sometimes that can come out as resentment or anger as a defense mechanism. i don't want to be worthless, so i have to prove that i'm right. that may not ring true for you and your experience, but if you feel that you always have to be right, consider that you may be protecting yourself from being wrong. what does being wrong feel like for you? what do you think it says about you? you don't have to answer that here, but do think about it. being wrong shouldn't severely impact your self-worth or feel devastating. 

therapy is the most effective treatment for PDs. i owe a lot of my own insight to therapy. if you can find a way to make it work for you, you can see huge benefit.

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Thanks for the response folks,

@echolocation Its weird because some times i can accept my Ocpd diagnosis then other times i'm like nahh i dont have it...Its possible to have Both OCPD and OCD..I think if thats the case for me i think OCD is probably the one that causes the most disruption in my life and there again maybe OCPD can actually fuel OCD?? I find my brain to be like a sponge...It just wants to learn constantly....Even if its really pointless knowledge it just wants to soak up every last bit of info it can...I've found that i can exhaust subjects to the point they no longer interest me because i want to learn every last detail i can about them and when i feel i've learnt enough about them the subject then bores me....I've heard from other OCPDers online they are similar...I'm thinking of having general counselling..I didnt find Psychodynamic therapy any help...I found it very cold and clinical..Like i was like a test subject who was just been constantly observed..The therapist said very little if anything during the sessions which used to make me really annoyed and resentfull....I used to tell him this hoping it might change the cause of the therapy but it didnt...I said i needed feedback and i learned better when i was asked questions..The sessions were more of a sounding off from me..A place to vent then leave..But i'd ultimately leave more frustrated because i felt the therapy was pointless..So i'd then group all therapists as been the same etc...I find the things i'm most Black and white on are things that involve moral behaviour so things like telling the truth been a big one...If someone lies then i see them as all bad rather than someone who is human and can make mistakes just like me..A Pdoc lots of years ago told me to try and look into the grey areas of life...

Edited by GrannyG81
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I've been summoned? :D

OCPD or not, it's clear there is a desire to talk to someone about your concerns, but that won't get very far if you can't let your guard down, as you know. Some questions:

  1. How long ago were you diagnosed?
  2. Did you like/know your therapists beforehand?
  3. Do you have others in your life you can talk to?

Getting a good working relationship is key to therapy- you have to be patient with yourself and the therapist (though I completely understand the desire to just get better now). Personally I think my closest experience to this isn't so much resentment, but irritation/anger at people for not understanding certain rules. Being late would piss me off because it's breaking a social rule. I also struggle with perceived moral 'failings'... unfortunately I think I internalised this message of 'it's not that you did a bad thing, it's that you are bad' and sort of apply it to others as well. 

A useful tip that many have suggested on here is to literally print out or write down what you put in these forums and give them to your therapist. Sometimes it's easier giving them something you've already written than trying to explain it. This response is all over the place but I would really recommend therapist shopping if you can. Organising a session and seeing if they match what you are looking for. There are therapists out there who will suit you better than others. I have also had 'quiet' therapists and hated it.

Sometimes focusing on one issue at a time helps more than trying to tackle a whole diagnosis at once. 

2 hours ago, echolocation said:

my OCPD partially developed because as a child, being smart was one of the only things i was ever praised for

Side note, completely relate to this. The flip side is that I was mocked for being 'wrong' (even when it boiled down to a matter of opinion) which lead me to become super defensive. 

2 hours ago, GrannyG81 said:

I find my brain to be like a sponge...It just wants to learn constantly....Even if its really pointless knowledge it just wants to soak up every last bit of info it can

Also very relatable! I love trivia and going down research rabbit holes. 

Also feel free to ask any questions about therapy or OCPD/OCD. In my mind OCPD/OCD are a Venn diagram- they overlap but are distinct enough.

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13 hours ago, ananke said:

How long ago were you diagnosed

Looking back over my notes i was originally diagnosed with OCD..This goes back to 2004...

I got sober about 11 years ago and i was a outpatient at a drug and alcohol team..In the UK that is made up of Community Psychiatric nurses and Psychiatrists who specialise is substance abuse..The PDoc at the Drugs and alcohol team was the first to mention obsessive personality as she said my themes changed a lot and people with clinical ocd have just 1central theme..Theres 2 points to that i disagree with...

1) Because i didnt spend much time with her during my time at the drugs and alcohol team i think if she had got to know me better she would of discovered that i do have a central "Theme" which is based around contamination

2) Apparantly OCD can indeed change themes and is more known By "Pure O" or Purely obsessional....Maybe the PDoc wasnt aware of Pure O as its more a Laymans term rather than a Diagnostic one...

I'm including this just to give some background over diagnosis...My official OCPD diagnosis came about 5 years ago...I went through a whole list of possible diagnosis what i believed could be wrong with me and the Pdoc at the time explained each one and as to Why i dont have them...When he said No to OCD i asked is there a Subtype..he said yes and said OCPD...Other PDocs have said OCD..Also ocd and possible ocpd together..I ended up getting fed up with it and gave up with diagnosis..Everything in my diagnosis is always along the obsessional/Anxious spectrum..Although in my notes theres vague terms like "acute psychotic features" "obsessive ruminations" and "ideas of reference" And various things like that..That could be more to do with my depression which i've been diagnosed with by various Psyches..

13 hours ago, ananke said:

Did you like/know your therapists beforehand

The CBT Therapist i knew as i she had been my therapist in the past...The Psycho dynamic Therapist i had never met before untill therapy...The problem is i could like them initially but if they say something i disagree with or the therapy session does not go the way i would of liked it to then thats when the resentful mindset comes in...I think this could be linked to them not doing things how i want..Which is an OCPD trait ..One that i believe is based on having control..I find that i am quite contradicted...An example would be me having to be right...If lets say i want to be right i would therefore want people to agree with me..If they did not agree with me I would believe them to be wrong...Yet if they did agree with me i would believe them to have no mind of there own and are simply a mindless follower...Its like putting people in a complete no win situation...I've spoke to others online with OCPD and many of them totally related with it...Wether its a known OCPD trait i dont know...

 

13 hours ago, ananke said:

I have also had 'quiet' therapists and hated it.

Me too..Found the sessions completely pointless

 

13 hours ago, ananke said:

Also very relatable! I love trivia and going down research rabbit holes

I love research...infact just about every OCPDer i've spoke to online said the same..The only downside is once i've researched it to a point i'm Mentally "Full Up" i then lose interest in the subject and ultimately exhaust it..I then move on to the next subject ha ha

Thanks for the Reply @ananke I'm sure i will have more questions for you..I think ultimately i will look more into having counselling rather than  specific therapy..I think what i'm looking for is  someone i can just offload to and get some feedback from rather than a more probing therapy which delves into the hows and whys of why i have said disorder...I suppose in a quite arrogant way i believe that theirs nothing  a therapist of that discription can offer as i believe i know more than them about it lol Thanks Again

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I've never heard of themes and I'm in the UK... no idea what the nurse was on about. Seems more appropriate to take the service user at their word? Mind you when I was diagnosed I told the psych I had all the signs of OCD and he said no, OCPD. I don't understand why in the UK we can't have both lol. I still say I have OCD

To be honest, like I said before, sometimes focusing on an issue rather than a diagnosis might help the most for you at this moment (totally my uneducated opinion though). Particularly since this issue is preventing you from getting help for other symptoms, which is sounds like you want. I don't know how to help you with the resentfulness other than I think it is fairly common. Might be a challenge to work through but I'm sure there are people out there willing to help. You have to find what works for you, with the caveat that sometimes progress feels uncomfortable and difficult. I have huge anxiety about being told I'm doing something wrong, and it took a while for me to accept feedback from my therapist that I was effing something up (she puts in much more tactfully than that).

If you have any questions feel free to put them on here, sure someone will answer!

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55 minutes ago, ananke said:

I've never heard of themes and I'm in the UK

The Themes are just the underlying content to the OCD..Like contamination for example..Thats the most common one..With things like handwashing etc What the psyche was getting at was that people with clinical OCD as she put it is that they will tend to have one general theme that will stick with them through out life...So the person with contamination whilst may get other intrusive thoughts about anything the main "Obsessive" Theme will revolve around contamination...I was taught in CBT we all get intrusive thoughts not just people with ocd its how the person the with ocd  reacts  to them that keep them in cycle..Not sure i totally agree with that but maybe thats one component of it,..The Psyche was saying that because i've had mulitple themes like checking,Harm,Health,Numbers etc there doesnt seem to be a main underlying theme and thats when she mentioned obsessive personality....I disagree with this as apparantly people with OCD can have multiple Themes or Content and its know more by Pure O...Plus if i'd of been in her care for longer she would of seen my main "Theme" is contamination..Although i've had obsessive fixations with other things like checking etc..Contamination tends to be the main one thats stuck around the most....https://www.ocduk.org/ocd/types/ This link explains it a bit better....Not saying you dont know what OCD is or Isnt as you obviously do just something that explains a bit more what i mean by themes..The article refers to it as types but thats more semantics..

Edited by GrannyG81
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